Neckwear/Eyewear/Footwear re-tagging

kuuderes_shadow said:

Searches which should have 0* results: (page count with 20 images per page)
white_footwear -mismatched_footwear -shoes_removed -boots_removed solo boots shoes - 117 pages
red_footwear -mismatched_footwear -shoes_removed -boots_removed solo boots shoes - 158 pages
purple_footwear -mismatched_footwear -shoes_removed -boots_removed solo boots shoes - 14 pages

After going through and fixing most of the mistags caused by the bulk update, the following are the current counts: (page count with 20 images per page)

white_footwear -mismatched_footwear -shoes_removed -boots_removed solo boots shoes - 3 pages
red_footwear -mismatched_footwear -shoes_removed -boots_removed solo boots shoes - 4 pages
purple_footwear -mismatched_footwear -shoes_removed -boots_removed solo boots shoes - 2 pages

Besides the above, I also took care of the (eyewear_removed -> sunglasses), (eyewear_removed -> glasses), (eyewear_on_head -> sunglasses), and (pink_neckwear -> bowtie) implications.

Taking a cursory look at the above posts, it seems like many of them had both the shoes and the boots tags before the BUR. There are probably some ones that I missed since I was focused on only a single user ID, but I want to handle those cases manually.

However, even with that, there appears to be some tag gardening that needs to occur, however it should be a lot more simple now that the post count has been significantly reduced.

Why have we aliased the choker tags without discussing it further? I didn't see anyone agreeing to BE98's proposal for it. Why don't we go ahead now and make necklaces or anything at all with proximity to the neck "neckwear." Choker does not have the same utility as a 'neckwear' that the other tags that composite do.

Chokers are mostly used as accesories, right?

Well nobody was agreeing to the uninclusion either, just as nobody was agreeing to the inclusion. Nobody was really talking but you, me and Chiera. TBQH I thought this was a dead topic. I can only guess that there may have been a discussion in a moderator+ topic...?

Even now though, the situation is still reversible, with only the last few days since the alias went into effect to clean up after. So they could still be brought back if there's enough consensus. I'll even help with the cleanup effort.

+1 to splitting the chokers.

Chiera said:

Chokers are mostly used as accesories, right?

Could you explain the relevance of this? Same can be said about necklaces which are not aliased to neckwear.

chinatsu said:

Could you explain the relevance of this? Same can be said about necklaces which are not aliased to neckwear.

We have discussed this on Discord, so stop pretending you don't know the answer.
Jewelry isn't clothing.

Chiera said:

We have discussed this on Discord, so stop pretending you don't know the answer.
Jewelry isn't clothing.

It's not that I don't know, I disagree. And stop pretending discord is the public record, the forum is for formal discussions.

Your distinction don't stand to reason. By your own distinction, that a necklace isn't clothing and thereby somehow doesn't apply, consider that a choker "is a close-fitting necklace worn around the neck" (Wikipedia). So do you have another arbitrary reason as to why a choker should be considered neckwear?

chinatsu said:

It's not that I don't know, I disagree. And stop pretending discord is the public record, the forum is for formal discussions.

It's not arbitrary at all, but should also need to look what chokers really are and they are still used as attire, not as jewelry.

You are tossing here two things together that don't fit together at all.

Chiera said:

It's not arbitrary at all, but should also need to look what chokers really are and they are still used as attire, not as jewelry.

You are tossing here two things together that don't fit together at all.

Your distinction was that chokers are clothing, whereas they are clearly classed as a type of necklace. And necklaces are as you contend accessories not clothing. I think to call chokers attire or jewelry is really missing the point. Whichever they are classed as says nothing as to whether they should be considered "neckwear" as we are using the word.

So I ask again, what other reason do you have that chokers are a neckwear type?

A choker is a band that is worn on the mid or upper neck. It is attached snugly. Whereas with the other types of 'neckwear'—excluding bow ties fixed to a choker—are worn around the lower part of the neck, typically with a collar of some sort covering the part that goes around the neck, with the front part fixed on the clavicle. More often than not in fact, it appears as though artist could be perfectly unaware that those neckwears even do go around the neck and just rest on the breastbone. A choker is worn completely on the neck, not touching the clavicle or shoulders in any manner, nor being tucked under—or resting over—a collar.

Typical neckwears are also composed more often of bandana-like cloth. Chokers are composed of "velvet, plastic, beads, leather, metal, such as silver, gold or platinum, etc" (Again, Wikipedia). Ever seen a metallic or beaded neckerchief? Anyone who's been in Scouting also knows what a kerchief is a larger piece of cloth rolled up before it's adorned on the neck. A choker could be described more accurately as a tight-fitting necklace. See image for example: https://i2.wp.com/blog.scoutingmagazine.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2015/01/how-to-wear-neckerchief.jpg

chinatsu said:

Your distinction was that chokers are clothing, whereas they are clearly classed as a type of necklace. And necklaces are as you contend accessories not clothing. I think to call chokers attire or jewelry is really missing the point. Whichever they are classed as says nothing as to whether they should be considered "neckwear" as we are using the word.

So I ask again, what other reason do you have that chokers are a neckwear type?

A choker is a band that is worn on the mid or upper neck. It is attached snugly. Whereas with the other types of 'neckwear'—excluding bow ties fixed to a choker—are worn around the lower part of the neck, typically with a collar of some sort covering the part that goes around the neck, with the front part fixed on the clavicle. More often than not in fact, it appears as though artist could be perfectly unaware that those neckwears even do go around the neck and just rest on the breastbone. A choker is worn completely on the neck, not touching the clavicle or shoulders in any manner, nor being tucked under—or resting over—a collar.

Typical neckwears are also composed more often of bandana-like cloth. Chokers are composed of "velvet, plastic, beads, leather, metal, such as silver, gold or platinum, etc" (Again, Wikipedia). Ever seen a metallic or beaded neckerchief? Anyone who's been in Scouting also knows what a kerchief is a larger piece of cloth rolled up before it's adorned on the neck. A choker could be described more accurately as a tight-fitting necklace. See image for example: http://pack376.scoutlander.com/MediaVaults/imagevault/m59ta78xj622765.jpg

I have nothing to add here except that chokers also don't cover anything like the other neckwear types, especially bowties. So they are accessories (i.e. you wear them and here around the neck) but unlike necklaces not jewelry.

Could anyone provide their opinion on a split out of choker tags from neckwear?

@Hillside_Moose or @NWF_Renim were the one who approved the bulk as far as I know.

But I think @Type-kun shouldn't be left out here.

Still hoping to get some feedback. The more we neglect reverse the choker alias the more entrenched the problem becomes.

Chokers don't seem like they belong in the "neckwear" category. I think of necktie, neckerchief, and bowtie as more often exclusive of each other (not often seen at the same time on the same person) than I would of chokers in relation to those tags, so there would be a benefit in keeping them separate.

EB said:

Chokers don't seem like they belong in the "neckwear" category. I think of necktie, neckerchief, and bowtie as more often exclusive of each other (not often seen at the same time on the same person) than I would of chokers in relation to those tags, so there would be a benefit in keeping them separate.

Yes I completely agree, this reflects some of the arguments I've made.

As it stands now though chokers have been rolled up into the neckwear aliases so I'm hoping others would support reversing that particular alias.

I repeat my support for reversing the choker aliases.

Pinging @Hillside_Moose since they also approved the bulk with the chokers as far as I know.

Can anyone link me to the bulk update for reversing the choker aliases?

Hillside_Moose said:

Can anyone link me to the bulk update for reversing the choker aliases?

I don't think any was made as people are still kinda discussing it and I haven't followed it enough to make one myself. @BrokenEagle98