Neckwear/Eyewear/Footwear re-tagging

Since neckwear tags got populated to some degree lately, I wanted to ask if tagging should be simplified for those tags.
Neckwear tags include necktie, ascot, bowtie etc.
A list of neckwear is found here.

Similar to the eyewear and legwear tags, the intention is to find an umbrella tag for colored neckwear.
So you have a blue_ascot and a blue_necktie. So many color tags seem a bit excessive and maybe the umbrella tag "blue_neckwear" is more welcomed.

Several alias and deimplication requests need to be done for this but it would drastically reduce tag noise like "blue ascot".

So instead of tagging your typical shiranui (kantai collection) picture with red ribbon and neck ribbon, you'd do red ribbon, neck ribbon and red_neckwear or whatever?

There's quite a visual difference between (some) different types of neckwear, considerably more so than legwear (which are generally just different lengths of much the same thing) and most eyewear (especially as it's x-framed_eyewear, thus excluding the bigger deviations like eyepatches and so forth).

kuuderes_shadow said:

So instead of tagging your typical shiranui (kantai collection) picture with red ribbon and neck ribbon, you'd do red ribbon, neck ribbon and red_neckwear or whatever?

There's quite a visual difference between (some) different types of neckwear, considerably more so than legwear (which are generally just different lengths of much the same thing) and most eyewear (especially as it's x-framed_eyewear, thus excluding the bigger deviations like eyepatches and so forth).

Pretty much the same reasoning that seems also be behind the legwear tagging.
You example would still be red_neckwear + neck_ribbon. This is only to unify colors, since there are an awful lot of them (ascot, necktie, choker, bowtie, neck ribbons...).
So you would prefer to have a whole load of implications rather than a simple two tag search and less tags to maintain?

There is still a point when you say that the visual desig is muh more different. Not sire if people want to see chokers and neckties in the same search query, but you could always refine it by searching for "blue neckwear necktie". That seems like a valid two tag search.
But that's also why it's an idea :P.

Somewhat started going down this route with topic #12709, but got A LOT of pushback when I brought up the suggestion to nix the necktie_grab tag. However, there are parallels between this and legwear, and I would like to see a simplification of the tags. The panacea of tag simplicity would have all color/style tags just apply to the different portions of the body, something like *_headwear, *_neckwear, *_eyewear, *_legwear, *_footwear.

BrokenEagle98 said:

Somewhat started going down this route with topic #12709, but got A LOT of pushback when I brought up the suggestion to nix the necktie_grab tag. However, there are parallels between this and legwear, and I would like to see a simplification of the tags. The panacea of tag simplicity would have all color/style tags just apply to the different portions of the body, something like *_headwear, *_neckwear, *_eyewear, *_legwear, *_footwear.

This sounds a lot like a continuation of the ideas thrown around in topic #14032, actually. I'd happily endorse any effort to consolidate our increasingly-fragmented list of clothing tags, but it's hard to get on board with proposals to use tags with clunky non-words like "topwear".

iridescent_slime said:

This sounds a lot like a continuation of the ideas thrown around in topic #14032, actually. I'd happily endorse any effort to consolidate our increasingly-fragmented list of clothing tags, but it's hard to get on board with proposals to use tags with clunky non-words like "topwear".

Actually, I'd specifically leave the topwear and bottomwear out of it, since those areas are much more likely to have multiple combinations of layers with perhaps different patterns and colors for each.

So like I mentioned in forum #135433, we'd end up with general categories for headwear, neckwear, eyewear, legwear, and footwear. These can be much more easily consolidated due to the fact that those terms actually exist and aren't made up, but more importantly there is much less likelihood of multiple items being layered. Additionally, there is precedence with this as we have already done this with all of the legwear tags, and somewhat with the eyewear tags.

How do others feel about consolidating the above categories...?

The easier the tagging system becomes, the better for us to search and garden in the long run: Too specific terms are get thrown out the window, like colored asot tags..
It's pretty much applying Occam's Razor which is mostly a good thing.

If it were down to me I'd have this not go ahead, but I'd be willing to accept neckwear/footwear for colour and colour patterns (eg. striped, argyle etc.).

However, my earlier point about differences between things applies once you get off colours and into styles of stuff.

frilled legwear is used no matter what the length of the legwear, for instance. This is okay because, as stated previously, most legwear are broadly the same thing but in different lengths. A frilled ascot, however, is a fundamentally different thing to a frilled choker, or a frilled ribbon that happens to be worn around the neck.

Similarly, while there is a toeless legwear tag, I don't want to see open toe shoes replaced with a toeless_footwear that then gets flooded with ten thousand and one pictures of sandals (this one is bad enough already).

Headwear groupings I dislike because not only is a top hat fundamentally different to a headband, but they're also worn in completely different places. And that's before you get into headgear, which already encompasses a rather excessive array of stuff in a "this doesn't have anywhere else to go" sense, some (but not all) of which isn't even touching the head. It's also much more vague about what would be included - legwear is pretty obvious most of the time, footwear would be as well, and eyewear is thanks to the way tags are worded. Neckwear is rather more vague but for the most part has distinct limits. But headwear? Do you count hoods? halos? hair ornaments? hairbands? Fake antennae or animal ears? Wigs? All the myriad bizarre things under headgear? Any of these things that you say no to would inevitably need constant tag gardening to remove them. And if you include all of them then you're stretching the definition, in my opinion, so wide that it loses all meaning.

As for topwear and bottomwear... No.

(edit:typo)

What Chiera said. Especially the footwear color umbrella tags are sorely needed.

How about we just go with footwear and neckwear with the colors and patterns for now then and see where that leaves us?

As a separate but related item, consolidate more eyewear tags, such as eyewear_on_head, eyewear_around_neck, eyewear_removed, etc? Thoughts?

BrokenEagle98 said:

How about we just go with footwear and neckwear with the colors and patterns for now then and see where that leaves us?

As a separate but related item, consolidate more eyewear tags, such as eyewear_on_head, eyewear_around_neck, eyewear_removed, etc? Thoughts?

Since sunglasses vs glasses tagging is sometimes obscure, I'd go with these.

Unimplication BUR in forum #137099 will need to be run first!

create alias aqua_shoes -> aqua_footwear
create alias black_boots -> black_footwear
create alias black_shoes -> black_footwear
create alias blue_boots -> blue_footwear
create alias blue_shoes -> blue_footwear
create alias brown_boots -> brown_footwear
create alias brown_shoes -> brown_footwear
create alias green_boots -> green_footwear
create alias green_shoes -> green_footwear
create alias grey_boots -> grey_footwear
create alias grey_shoes -> grey_footwear
create alias orange_boots -> orange_footwear
create alias orange_shoes -> orange_footwear
create alias pink_boots -> pink_footwear
create alias pink_shoes -> pink_footwear
create alias purple_boots -> purple_footwear
create alias purple_shoes -> purple_footwear
create alias red_boots -> red_footwear
create alias red_shoes -> red_footwear
create alias white_boots -> white_footwear
create alias white_shoes -> white_footwear
create alias yellow_boots -> yellow_footwear
create alias yellow_shoes -> yellow_footwear

Link to request

Footwear aliases. Only doing color/styles for now.

The above are all the tags that have a tag count of at least 50. The rest don't require an alias yet and can be moved manually.

Edit:

• Added unimplication request at top that needs to be run first

The bulk update request #1289 has been approved.

Unimplication BUR in forum #137100 will need to be run first!

create alias aqua_bowtie -> aqua_neckwear
create alias aqua_neckerchief -> aqua_neckwear
create alias aqua_necktie -> aqua_neckwear
create alias black_bowtie -> black_neckwear
create alias black_choker -> black_neckwear
create alias black_neckerchief -> black_neckwear
create alias black_necktie -> black_neckwear
create alias blue_ascot -> blue_neckwear
create alias blue_bowtie -> blue_neckwear
create alias blue_choker -> blue_neckwear
create alias blue_neckerchief -> blue_neckwear
create alias blue_necktie -> blue_neckwear
create alias brown_bowtie -> brown_neckwear
create alias brown_choker -> brown_neckwear
create alias brown_necktie -> brown_neckwear
create alias checkered_necktie -> checkered_neckwear
create alias green_bowtie -> green_neckwear
create alias green_choker -> green_neckwear
create alias green_neckerchief -> green_neckwear
create alias green_necktie -> green_neckwear
create alias grey_neckerchief -> grey_neckwear
create alias grey_necktie -> grey_neckwear
create alias orange_ascot -> orange_neckwear
create alias orange_bowtie -> orange_neckwear
create alias orange_choker -> orange_neckwear
create alias orange_neckerchief -> orange_neckwear
create alias orange_necktie -> orange_neckwear
create alias pink_bowtie -> pink_neckwear
create alias pink_choker -> pink_neckwear
create alias pink_neckerchief -> pink_neckwear
create alias pink_necktie -> pink_neckwear
create alias plaid_bowtie -> plaid_neckwear
create alias plaid_necktie -> plaid_neckwear
create alias print_bowtie -> print_neckwear
create alias purple_bowtie -> purple_neckwear
create alias purple_choker -> purple_neckwear
create alias purple_necktie -> purple_neckwear
create alias red_ascot -> red_neckwear
create alias red_bowtie -> red_neckwear
create alias red_choker -> red_neckwear
create alias red_neckerchief -> red_neckwear
create alias red_necktie -> red_neckwear
create alias striped_bowtie -> striped_neckwear
create alias striped_neckerchief -> striped_neckwear
create alias striped_necktie -> striped_neckwear
create alias white_bowtie -> white_neckwear
create alias white_choker -> white_neckwear
create alias white_neckerchief -> white_neckwear
create alias white_necktie -> white_neckwear
create alias yellow_ascot -> yellow_neckwear
create alias yellow_bowtie -> yellow_neckwear
create alias yellow_choker -> yellow_neckwear
create alias yellow_neckerchief -> yellow_neckwear
create alias yellow_necktie -> yellow_neckwear

Link to request

Neckwear aliases. Only doing color/styles for now. Scarfs were left out as it's not clear whether those should be counted as neckwear or not.

The above are all the tags that have a tag count of at least 50. The rest don't require an alias yet and can be moved manually.

Edit:

• Added unimplication request at top that needs to be run first

The bulk update request #1290 has been approved.

Unimplication BUR in forum #137103 will need to be run first!

create alias adjusting_glasses -> adjusting_eyewear
create alias adjusting_sunglasses -> adjusting_eyewear
create alias broken_glasses -> broken_eyewear
create alias glasses_in_mouth -> eyewear_in_mouth
create alias glasses_on_head -> eyewear_on_head
create alias glasses_removed -> eyewear_removed
create alias glasses_switch -> eyewear_switch
create alias hand_on_glasses -> hand_on_eyewear
create alias holding_glasses -> holding_eyewear
create alias holding_sunglasses -> holding_eyewear
create alias no_glasses -> no_eyewear
create alias removing_glasses -> removing_eyewear
create alias round_glasses -> round_eyewear
create alias rectangular_glasses -> rectangular_eyewear
create alias sunglasses_on_head -> eyewear_on_head
create alias sunglasses_removed -> eyewear_removed
create alias semi-rimless_glasses -> semi-rimless_eyewear
create alias under-rim_glasses -> under-rim_eyewear
create alias rimless_glasses -> rimless_eyewear
create alias over-rim_glasses -> over-rim_eyewear

Link to request

Eyewear aliases. Doing all of the tags not specific to a particular type of eyewear.

The above are all the tags that have a tag count of at least 50. The rest don't require an alias yet and can be moved manually.

Edit:

• Added rim specifiers at the suggestion of nonamethanks in forum #136013
• Added missing round glasses and rectangular glasses
• Added unimplication request at top that needs to be run first

The bulk update request #1291 has been approved.

Please respond individually or altogether about each of the above sets of BURs.

For myself, I'm biased but I give all of the above a +1.

BrokenEagle98 said:
Scarfs were left out as it's not clear whether those should be counted as neckwear or not.

I would leave scarfs out because they're distinct enough from the rest, and they're pieces of clothing that can cover much more than the neck. What about collars though? Or sailor collars? Those have colored tags too.
+1 on the rest.

Another thing, should semi-rimless glasses and similar tags linked in its wiki be generalized? I ask this because of the existence of stuff like what kawashima_momo wears, a under-rimmed monocle.

nonamethanks said:

What about collars though? Or sailor collars? Those have colored tags too.

Those seem to be more a part of topwear rather than items unto themselves.

Another thing, should semi-rimless glasses and similar tags linked in its wiki be generalized? I ask this because of the existence of stuff like what kawashima_momo wears, a under-rimmed monocle.

Yeah, that's true... I was actually thinking of her for a lot of the tags, since there have been many a time when I wanted to tag something but didn't want to create a *_monocle tag. Although I can't think of a post of the top of my head, I can image that the rimless/under-rimmed/semi-rimless tags would also apply to sunglasses as well. I'll go ahead and update the eyewear BUR accordingly

BrokenEagle98 said:

Those seem to be more a part of topwear rather than items unto themselves.

There's the case of detached collars, however.

nonamethanks said:

There's the case of detached collars, however.

There aren't any *_detached_collar tags so no alias is needed at least. As to whether these should be tagged with the new *_neckwear tags, I would say that if they're worn in a similar manner to neckwear like chokers or neckerchiefs (which most are) then yes, they should. In addition to the *_collar tags.

That's the great thing about the above groupings... they are inclusive to attire that don't yet have qualifiers.