Limiting Twitter uploads.

source:*twimg* jpeg_artifacts
source:*twitter* jpeg_artifacts

And even more still that have not been tagged with jpeg_artifacts. The ammount of artifacted images we've been getting lately has increased drastically and more and more are being uploaded daily.

A great deal of artists will eventually upload higher quality versions to pixiv/seiga/nijie/blog/etc, so uploading from their twitters should be avoided. Even PNGs from these artists should be avoided since twitter tries to resample them to reduce their size, just like they do to JPEGs, but instead of actually being intelligent about it and converting those PNGs into JPEGs, they keep them as PNGs and only end up increasing the filesize. It's more or less the same problem we had with pixiv and their scrubbing of meta data from images (topic #9745, thankfully they seem to have stopped doing this).

I'm not calling for an outright ban on uploading from twitter, since unfortunately there are some artists that post exclusively to it. However, a bit more care should be taken when uploading. If an artist posts their art only to twitter and said art isn't horribly compressed or is a PNG, then uploading should be fine. However, if the artist routinely uploads their twitter posts to other sites and at a higher quality, then avoid uploading from their twitter.

+1

What Ars said. That degree of artifacting would've been bad in the late 90's and is simply bizarre today. Presumably, Twitter expects that most image uploads are blurry cell phone photos.

-1
It is what it is; even such high-profile artists as Imizu-san have art they exclusively put on Twitter.

This is pretty much how I feel. Twitter should almost always be the last resort when the artist's work is on multiple sites.

I'm kind of split on what to do on waiting, though, when the artist may or may not upload to a different site later. Some artists do it routinely, but others may be more variable. I'm not really too bothered by uploads from Twitter when there is no other option, but I would like users to double-check if it gets uploaded elsewhere later and not shy away from uploading the less-artifacted version if it becomes available.

It can't be helped.

orushibu takes years to post high quality versions if he even cares. Never going to get that Angel pic.

I've always wished artifacted posts were valid for flagging and deletion when the better version is uploaded. Won't affect contributors much, I guess, but incentivizes not uploading Twitter JPEGs and clears clutter.

I can see keeping actual revisions' child posts as "history," but keeping the crappily compressed copy of an otherwise identical image has always confused me. Duplicates too, but that's a whole 'nother (Pixiv vs Seiga) beehive.

-1

I do believe that some images from twitter are too artifacted to upload (Generally with lots of any red and cobalt blue, and I avoid uploading those) but that should not mean you shouldn't allow uploads from twitter, for aforementioned reasons. Most of the time, the artifacts are too slight to notice without concentrating to find it.

On top of that, many of the twitter image uploaders are those who couldn't keep up with the 24/7, minute-by-minute awareness required (As well as a cutthroat nature to initially tag only a handful of tags) to upload decent images from pixiv. Banning twitter might as well tell them to stop uploading at all.

CodeKyuubi said:

-1

I do believe that some images from twitter are too artifacted to upload (Generally with lots of any red and cobalt blue, and I avoid uploading those) but that should not mean you shouldn't allow uploads from twitter, for aforementioned reasons. Most of the time, the artifacts are too slight to notice without concentrating to find it.

On top of that, many of the twitter image uploaders are those who couldn't keep up with the 24/7, minute-by-minute awareness required (As well as a cutthroat nature to initially tag only a handful of tags) to upload decent images from pixiv. Banning twitter might as well tell them to stop uploading at all.

Did you even read my whole post?

Ars said:

I'm not calling for an outright ban on uploading from twitter, since unfortunately there are some artists that post exclusively to it. However, a bit more care should be taken when uploading. If an artist posts their art only to twitter and said art isn't horribly compressed or is a PNG, then uploading should be fine. However, if the artist routinely uploads their twitter posts to other sites and at a higher quality, then avoid uploading from their twitter.

I did, and I subtly mentioned in my post that some people are too cavalier with the jpeg artifact tag, which seems to be something you have a problem with.

Kikimaru said:
-1
It is what it is; even such high-profile artists as Imizu-san have art they exclusively put on Twitter.

getserious said:
It can't be helped.
orushibu takes years to post high quality versions if he even cares. Never going to get that Angel pic.

CodeKyuubi said: <quote-ninja'd by Ars>

Ars said: <quote-ninja'd by Ars>

All emphasis mine. I also take issue with this argument:

CodeKyuubi said:

On top of that, many of the twitter image uploaders are those who couldn't keep up with the 24/7, minute-by-minute awareness required (As well as a cutthroat nature to initially tag only a handful of tags) to upload decent images from pixiv. Banning twitter might as well tell them to stop uploading at all.

Uploading substandard pictures or inferior (soon-to-be) duplicates is not OK just because you can't find anything better. If you can't post anything good, then don't post.

Flopsy said:

All emphasis mine. I also take issue with this argument:

Uploading substandard pictures or inferior (soon-to-be) duplicates is not OK just because you can't find anything better. If you can't post anything good, then don't post.

I would agree with this, in reference to the army of mediocre Touhou and Kantai Collection images that are approved simply on the basis of the popularity of their copyright. However, as mentioned, you do not know when a twitter image will be re-uploaded elsewhere, if at all.

Personally, I do not follow artists who tend to upload to pixiv sameday, but that may be specific to me.

One route to take is to flag the Twitter pic for deletion once a better version pops up on Pixiv or whatever. I look at Twitter images the same as Pixiv manga samples than duplicates.

Hillside_Moose said:

One route to take is to flag the Twitter pic for deletion once a better version pops up on Pixiv or whatever. I look at Twitter images the same as Pixiv manga samples than duplicates.

If we do go this route, I suggest we also flag samples and low-quality scans once higher resolution and quality scans are uploaded, and flag duplicates that are considered lower quality, if our purpose is to maintain the highest level of image quality and/or clarity (Resolution (And therefore clarity of detail) of the scan vs the cleanliness of the source image).

I've always wondered why we don't.

Because in the end it would be discouraging to post anything. At least for these who care about their accepted picture e-peen and its ratio. If we allow deleting such, then you'll never know if your properly tagged and already accepted post won't be deleted - only because someone finds slightly better version.

Flopsy said:

Uploading substandard pictures or inferior (soon-to-be) duplicates is not OK just because you can't find anything better.

The problem is, you really never know if something you upload won't be a inferior duplicate soon. Yes, you might sometimes expect that artist will post better quality version (because he always does) but that's all. That's why we're giving a benefit of the doubt if picture of worse quality has been posted first - by not deleting it.

Not to mention the fact that the question which version has better quality can sometimes be very disputable. It's not a big deal while it's only matter of proper parenting, but if we allow deleting worse quality versions...

richie said:

Because in the end it would be discouraging to post anything. At least for these who care about their accepted picture e-peen and its ratio. If we allow deleting such, then you'll never know if your properly tagged and already accepted post won't be deleted - only because someone finds slightly better version.

Perhaps we should add the ability to delete these posts in a way that they don't take away from the uploader's upload limit?

Similar to how banned posts do not decrease the uploader's limit because the uploader couldn't have predicted ahead of time that the artist would request it be banned.

CodeKyuubi said:

If we do go this route, I suggest we also flag samples and low-quality scans once higher resolution and quality scans are uploaded, and flag duplicates that are considered lower quality, if our purpose is to maintain the highest level of image quality and/or clarity (Resolution (And therefore clarity of detail) of the scan vs the cleanliness of the source image).

My suggestion specifically applies to Twitter jpgs since they're pretty much inferior by definition, but if it's going to spark a rantuyetmai 2.0 then scrap the whole thing and stick with the stasis quo of parenting the best version.

richie said:

Because in the end it would be discouraging to post anything. At least for these who care about their accepted picture e-peen and its ratio. If we allow deleting such, then you'll never know if your properly tagged and already accepted post won't be deleted - only because someone finds slightly better version.

Seems like the solution to a majority of that would be to not upload tiny and/or artifacted images if you take prestige in your ratio. Spend some time hunting down the highest quality and ensuring a lack of duplicates instead of flooding everything in. I'm not seeing much of a downside yet.

OOZ662 said:

Seems like the solution to a majority of that would be to not upload tiny and/or artifacted images if you take prestige in your ratio. Spend some time hunting down the highest quality and ensuring a lack of duplicates instead of flooding everything in. I'm not seeing much of a downside yet.

The point of it is that the twitter version would be the highest quality for some time (Barring simultaneous pixiv uploads), anywhere between a week and several months to never (I haven't yet followed an artist that doesn't at least release his/her art at a Comiket, but I'll take others' words for it).

And you'd be appalled as to the lengths I go to in order to find good images. In fact, I've almost monopolized the scan market, so much so that it's too much work to do it all by myself.

So, then, in the case of Twitter JPEGs, the upload is a "risk." It may get deleted in the future. And if a user is so incredibly worried about that in terms of pride, ego, or what-have-you, they shouldn't upload it.

On the other hand, even for people without those concerns I don't see an issue. I'm still a baby in terms of upload count because I can't compete in the Pixiv-twitch market, yet I can upload 60 posts at a time; even if all my now-outmoded uploads were deleted and penalized I don't see my limit being tanked to the point where I couldn't still use the site properly or running into trouble uploading even the largest chunks of art I come across (even if I un-lazy'd myself enough to upload them, which only happens rarely). People who genuinely need a higher limit than that (because they can provide quality images in mass quantities) either are already Contributors like the majority of users in this thread and thus don't need to really worry about it, or are probably on their way.

If a user is uploading so many artifacted/cropped/small images that their accounts become heavily impacted by their deletion, then I feel they fall in the same light as other new users that upload images that don't get approved to begin with. Put another way, I don't see the sense in "penalizing" a user whose compressed JPEG gets uploaded, childed to an existing better version, then deleted unless they get here with it before the better one and then it's okay to stay.

Plus, there's still the fact that just because something exists doesn't mean it needs to be on Danbooru right now, despite what the time between being on Pixiv and time to Danbooru upload on most semi-popular artists would seem to hint toward. The stated purpose of Danbooru is to be a gallery of quality art, and catering to the upload of Twitter's JPEG nightmares goes against that.
Really the only person I can think of in my time of being here that would have been heavily impacted by the deletion of such small/artifacted posts would have been MrGT, because he uploaded every single thing he came across immediately. I don't mind not fostering that kind of uploader.

I've seen some of your posts mentioning your backlog, and I'm certainly impressed. Your personal efforts are exemplary, and as such you too probably wouldn't have anything to worry about on top of being a Contributor.

EDIT: Got curious and did a quick look to see how many of my uploads would be dumped if non-revision child posts with better-quality parents got deleted. Three.