Question: Uploading with minimal tags.

DakuTree said:
Also seems a bit bad for the people who are trying to get promoted via tagging, which from at least what I've seen, takes quite a bit longer.

In this case I am talking about promoting someone to 'contributor' or above (OOZ662 is already 'privileged', and mentioned 'janitor' as a goal which almost certainly requires hitting 'contributor' first). Being that those users skip the mod queue on uploads, it's necessary to know what uploads they would provide if given the privilege.

People wanting to be promoted on tag gardening alone (in the absence of posts) can be promoted to 'privileged' or 'builder', which still get moderated but have additional status and privileges. One of the best ways to have this happen is to make yourself known either in the forums or by doing a lot of visible work (translation and wiki editing are other venues for this). Unfortunately at the moment we don't have clear ways of searching for great tag gardeners on their own. Even tag edits get conflated with posting. This would be another opportunity for improvement to the site or for an external script.

Getting promoted beyond 'contributor' really requires an admin's attention, namely, I believe, Albert's (or applying for the position when such positions are sought). To do this, it probably helps to be good and regularly active in a number of areas, especially in the forum (though I can't say for certain what Albert's criteria are). An active test to be sure you can differentiate between what is Danbooru-quality and what isn't is part of it (at least from my experience).

Shinjidude said:
(OOZ662 is already 'privileged', and mentioned 'janitor' as a goal which almost certainly requires hitting 'contributor' first).

Bizarrely it doesn't.

I'm guessing this is another attempt to attack DakuTree as a person? Dragging this on is not helpful, constructive, or mature. I should refer you to forum #57304. It also strikes me as odd for a person to say "stop hogging all the low-hanging fruit, I want to be able to boost my post-count" at the same time alluding that users with higher post counts have "no life". Seems hypocritical to me.

Yeah, yeah, even without reading that thread I know a border which I shouldn't cross. I learnt my lesson from what happened to Mr_GT and one more user of that profile in the past.

@Pixiv : It didn't use to have English interface in not so far past.

Shinjidude said :
We aren't like those forums that automatically reward people with titles for simply having a high post count (which seems to be part of the mindset behind this thread), but it's unfair to say that people don't get promoted.

Unfortunately, I find that as one of the biggest flaws in running Danbooru : no clear rules, just subjective judgement which varies from one person to another.

Log said:
Bizarrely it doesn't.

It doesn't, but I think in every exception there is a personal relationship at some point (which stands in place of the usual vetting procedure, and explains why there are mods with very few uploads). While I can't speak for anyone else, in my mind, trusting a person make unmoderated posts is a prerequisite to trusting them to make unmoderated posts as well as moderate other people's posts.

I suppose it's also possible for a person who who has already demonstrated good enough criteria for promotion to 'contributor' (but hasn't gotten one yet), apply to become 'janitor' and basically get both promotions at once (since the privileges of one are part of the other).

Actually I was speaking of the janitors with zero uploads. One user was bumped to janitor two months after starting to upload despite having quite a lot of mediocre posts beforehand and uploading even worse after the bump (this was resolved but it still happened.)

It appears that most of these accounts have been culled but there were a bunch of them.

Hmm... probably a mistake that has since been corrected. Possibly people that passed the short active test, but didn't demonstrate the same ability in the real world.

From what I remember, this was part of solving the problem of lack of janitors, and through putting "regular" users in those positions, it'd help flatten the decisions level, instead of having extreme decisions only.

Right, I'm just going to go ahead and run this. The thread has died again, and even after bringing up this issue, it continues to happen.
Will most likely get worse over the next week or two due to holidays and such aswell.

Could wait for something to be done about it, but thats unlikely.
Preferably I still think this best solution would just have something implemented to stop this. Either doing something about the users that do this (unlikely), ability to null the user status on posts where this happens (unlikely), or just removing the user status entirely (unlikely).
Any of that would deter users from doing it in the first place, basically removing the problem.

The bot will be running on this account, so it's both under the mod-queue (just in-case), aswell as easier to check posts that haven't been fully-tagged.
The database it's using to to convert the tags still isn't perfect, but will be improved on. It's mostly using the DB being used for this, so if people want to help they can.
Regardless of how well it tags though, everything will be double-checked/fully-tagged after upload so that isn't as issue.

Regardless of how well it tags though, everything will be double-checked/fully-tagged after upload so that isn't as issue.

But that's exactly what happens already without your bot.
The smell of massive hypocrisy is stunning.

Wypatroszony said:
But that's exactly what happens already without your bot.
The smell of massive hypocrisy is stunning.

Because people tagging like bots is a great thing.
The point of having people upload, is they don't tag like bots.

DakuTree said:
Because people tagging like bots is a great thing.

Unless the bot they are tagging like uses fucked up tags like 2alice1touhou0fuurin_(omaemona): http://danbooru.donmai.us/post_tag_history/index?post_id=1324596

Or tags in Japanese: http://danbooru.donmai.us/post_tag_history/index?post_id=1324592

Or tags nothing but tagme: http://danbooru.donmai.us/post_tag_history/index?post_id=1324609

Or tags nothing but revision: http://danbooru.donmai.us/post_tag_history/index?post_id=1324580

Your bot is pretty dumb and your reason for having it is dumb as well, viz. "People upload too fast and don't tag good, so I'll make a bot that can upload faster and tag worse!"

So you're running a bot that sometimes tags even less than the average user on upload and depends almost entirely on a third-party(ies) to tag it once it's up.

Explain to me how this is any different compared to what people have been doing before, because I'm not getting it.

That was a stupid coding mishap on my part. Maybe not the best idea to run this when I'm in the middle of implementing something.
Also doesn't help that the database I'm using is basically a collection of tags for pixiv translation plus. Looks like it needs cleared a bit.
Shall put it on hold until it's fixed.

What will you do if regular uploaders quit because of your bot?

nice_starship said:
What will you do if regular uploaders quit because of your bot?

What if regular uploaders quit because of this happening? I'm amazed I'm still around.
Seeing this issue consistantly happen, the same users doing it, and the problem being consistantly ignored has really made me consider it a few times. I really doubt I'm the only one who has thought about it, I'm just the only one actually wanting to see if something can be done about it.

DakuTree said:
That was a stupid coding mishap on my part. Maybe not the best idea to run this when I'm in the middle of implementing something.
Also doesn't help that the database I'm using is basically a collection of tags for pixiv translation plus. Looks like it needs cleared a bit.
Shall put it on hold until it's fixed.

How about you keep it off since no one has actually said you can go ahead and use it.

At best, this thing will only be able to tag character, copyright*, artist and maybe hair/eye color on upload and will still depend on other people fully tagging it. Which, might I remind you, is something most people have been doing since forever.

Hell, aside from comics and such, I at least try to tag my uploads almost immediately afterwards and so do must other users, and those that don't should be getting a swift kick in the ass through the Records system anyways. The site has worked fine like this for years and you're almost the only one that actually has a problem with it.

I honestly don't get what you're trying to change here. Again, the bot will be doing exactly what everyone else has been doing, except it can't fully tag its own uploads and has the possibility of mistagging posts. What the Hell is the point of all of this again?

Edit: * And let's not forget the fact that not every artist tags their pixiv upload with character and/or copyright, and sometimes other users have to do that for them afterwards. So, there's the possibility of tagging even less because of this. At worst, posts will be tagged with just the artist.

@nice starship: Your chances that he will quit running that whole comedy known as uploading bot are next to 0. He finds others as the problem, not him and his fancy scripts. Albert won't do a thing right now as he's probably busy with Danbooru 2...

Mr. Awesome Janitor got so full of himself that he finds the only problem posts with low number of tags and my question is who the heck asked you to solve that problem ? As far as I know poor uploaders ( by poor I mean not tagging their uploads even after 15-30 min.) are quite efficiently eliminated through warnings/records/bans. To my mind you try to eliminate people who somehow manage to be faster uploading one art than your bot, by providing one or two tags, even if they might add additional/more specific tags after uploading the art (and most do).

It's a matter of time when other will start making their own bots and what you going to say then ? Please, ban them as they tagging abilities are worse than my bot ?

Ars said:
How about you keep it off since no one has actually said you can go ahead and use it.

Since when did I need to ask to run this? As was said earlier in this thread, it doesn't matter how much gets tagged on upload, as long as it gets tagged in the end. The difference between users and bots being, users shouldn't be tagging like bots.
I could have very well just run this, or even done the whole thing manually like the users I'm complaining about, without mentioning a thing and it would have been "fine" as long as it's fully-tagged shortly after.

And it is off at least until the pixiv DB it's using is cleared a bit.

At best, this thing will only be able to tag character, copyright, artist and maybe hair/eye color on upload and will still depend on other people fully tagging it.

I did say it was on a completely post by post basis. Even then that isn't the point of running a bot.
As I said above, people are tagging like bots. Replacing that with an actual bot shouldn't really be a problem.

Hell, aside from comics and such, I at least try to tag my uploads almost immediately afterwards and so do must other users, and those that don't should be getting a swift kick in the ass through the Records system anyways.

Yet with your tagging, aswell as every other user I've seen doing this, the tagging on upload seems to be perfect on older posts, or posts that can't exactly be seen instantly by other users (homepages, blogs etc.). Same also seems to apply to recently posted images that I guess are not what could be considered "great".

The site has worked fine like this for years and you're almost the only one that actually has a problem with it.

Just because I'm the first one to actually push for something to be done about it doesn't mean I'm the only one with a problem with it. I just seem to be the only one to actually see the problems it actually causes.

I honestly don't get what you're trying to change here. Again, the bot will be doing exactly what everyone else has been doing, except it can't fully tag its own uploads and has the possibility of mistagging posts. What the Hell is the point of all of this again?

To simply replace people tagging like a bot, with a bot.
As I've already said though, this isn't the preferred solution, nor is it in anyway perfect, it's just the only one that can be done without having something implemented.

And what is the point of this conistant minimal tagging I see happening? Because I know perfectly well that people have no issue with tagging before-hand. Tag history can show a huge amount of how people upload.

HNTI said:
Mr. Awesome Janitor got so full of himself that he finds the only problem posts with low number of tags and my question is who the heck asked you to solve that problem?

No one. But the simple fact that the problem was being consistantly ignored pushed me to try and fix it. Every attempt of trying to actually get something done about it this that isn't a bot has been more or less ignored.

To my mind you try to eliminate people who somehow manage to be faster uploading one art than your bot, by providing one or two tags, even if they might add additional/more specific tags after uploading the art (and most do).

In most cases, true they do. That isn't the point though. As I've said several times now, there is no reason people should be uploading like bots.

DakuTree said:
The difference between users and bots being, users shouldn't be tagging like bots.

This is a 180 degree flip flop from your earlier position:

DakuTree said:
Because people tagging like bots is a great thing.

DakuTree said:
Just because I'm the first one to actually push for something to be done about it doesn't mean I'm the only one with a problem with it. I just seem to be the only one to actually see the problems it actually causes.

You're just the first one to try to game the system with a bot, instead of calling out problem users in reports, in dmails, or on the forum.

DakuTree said:
As I've said several times now, there is no reason people should be uploading like bots.

Premise: People shouldn't upload like bots
Solution: I'll make an uploading bot.

Just doesn't make sense to me.

forum #57304 - Civility on the forum
If you start resorting to insults, then I believe it's a sign that you need to step away from the keyboard and take a deep breath.

I've always been impressed at the relatively high standards of discussion on the forums, but I'm not seeing that in this thread.

On topic: I think the "uploaders will quit because of this bot" sounds like hyperbole now. My main concern is how well this bot finds good images and tags them well.

I applaud DakuTree for running this on a test account, but I really wish he'd waited until after Danbooru2 was rolled out. In the meantime, he could've run the bot without it uploading and used it as an image finder, since it's clear he's going to be checking each and every image for a long time whilst he debugs it.