If the wiki page for every character had a list of tags that described common depictions of that character, then tagging images like post #4016 would be a simple matter of hitting the search wiki function and checking for tags that didn't apply rather than trying to remember every tag for every character.
It would also be very helpful for times when I forget small details about a character like skirt_set and when I forget the outcome of tag discussions. e.g. Does konpaku_youmu_(ghost) imply hitodama? It would be simple enough to look for the old forum thread, but being able to check the wiki would be so much faster.
We already give a brief overview of every character's story, so why not a quick tag list to check against. forum #10263 and forum #53367 are the only old threads I can find that touch on this.
It would also be helpful at times like post #3291. What's alice wearing? An obi? A belt? A scarf? A ribbon? I've seen her wear a similar thing before and I'm sure this has been asked before (or maybe the answer is obvious to someone else) but I wouldn't have to guess/ask if it were on the wiki.
The common tags for characters will be shown if you search for said characters' tags (attires, copyrights, etc); basic knowledge even you know about this.
ghostrigger said: some well-written pages do exactly like that, like: kaname_madoka
Being diligent in wiki editing should do the trick.
That page lists 7 tags, which is a good start, but I'm talking about a completely exhaustive list. Some of them may seem obvious, but if the list was there, I could open the wiki page, copy some 20 tags that are almost guaranteed to be there and the only reason they're not implicated is because of the alternate_costume tag.
Edit: Oh and the related tags function is awesome, but far too unreliable/in-exhaustive for this.
I would be opposed to a "completely exhaustive list" associated with a character. Using aspects that are there to identify the character is one thing (such as their normal hair style, hair color, eye color, common type of outfit, skin color, etc), but putting a list of every little detail that may or may not be present is overkill.
Just because a item/trait is common, doesn't mean that it is only when the character is in an alternative costume that they're lacking it. It is up to the artist what is depicted and how things are depicted. Hair styles, hair colors, eye colors, outfits, jewelry, clothing, etc are all variable to some extent. Depending on some exhaustive list like the way you described it, seems to me like it would encourage inaccurate tagging. Going with what you said people can copy and paste "some 20 tags that are almost guaranteed to be there." I'd much rather users tag what tags they remember that they actually see in the image, than rely on a list of "almost" always in the image.
Well no, I don't mean "images with this character should always have these tags". I'm talking about a tool, not a rule.
I've been tagging gentags:..3 touhou all day and I have typed the same tags for so many images with reimu, marisa, youmu or sakuya in them that I'm considering making text files to copy from because it's much easier to breeze through and delete tags that aren't in the specific image I'm tagging than to re-type the tags each time. But then why not keep these text files on the wiki for everyone to use?
Fred1515 said: Then why not ask about a better related tags function? It could return more related tags, at least.
I plan too (starting with it giving mostly the same results for each tag and not providing a way to mark "not in this image") but;
That's for another discussion.
Related tags will always give tags that have no relation to the character, making the list to check from unhelpfully longer.
Related tags cannot give complete lists of tags for the character in different canon costumes.
A list in the wiki would help record how ambiguous or uncommon aspects of a character's design should be tagged. (I didn't know what an ascot or an obi was when I started tagging and I still don't know the name of Kourin's clothes)
Edit: It'll also help prevent me tagging 10 images of the same character, spotting a loafers tag in the next and thinking "oh goddamn, those last 10 had loafers too" or staring at a character thinking "what did I used to tag that?"
Edit: It'll also help prevent me tagging 10 images of the same character, spotting a loafers tag in the next and thinking "oh goddamn, those last 10 had loafers too" or staring at a character thinking "what did I used to tag that?"
This part is near unavoidable since most of the time it is only a few images that require the tag or it is a re-think of the existing tags.
hong_meiling and her "dress" is a great one for that.
post #1112584 has reminded me that Alice wears a sash, not a belt as I have been tagging for 2 months now. I'll have to go back and fix that at some point (a mass edit of all my alice_margatroid belt edits would be useful), but for now I'm bumping this.
I have about 30 text files (and rising) full of tag lists for various touhou characters. Shall I put them on a pastebin or start implementing S1eth's format and put them straight onto the wiki pages?
S1eth said: Nobody responded to my post. There may be issues with spoilers and it takes up a lot of space.
I didn't particularly care for the template format to be honest. I'm more preferential to writing out the description, somewhat like with what I did with Ikaros: "She's a type Alpha angeloid (angelandroid) with green to bluish-green eyes, white angel wings, robot ears, and very longmulticolored hair that is predominately pink or light red with sidelocks that are dark brown to blackish at the ends."
As you point out, the template format does take up a lot space. Depending on how a description would be written out could make my preference longer or shorter than a template as well. Preferably what goes under a character wiki isn't too long, so that it fits nicely when a user looks at the wiki definition from the post area.
The disadvantage of a prose description is that you have bluetext all over the place and you are forced to read the whole description to find what you want.
For example, taking a quick glance at Ikaros's wiki, I'd believe that she has short_hair, have no idea that pink and red are actually pink_hair and red_hair. "Sidelocks" could be payot... or not? It's not blue after all. Same for "dark brown to blackish".
So, she's a character with short multicolored (pink and red) hair...
The whole point is to have a head-to-feet/alphabetical list that you can copy & paste and use to check for the names of tags you've forgotten. A horizontal list is harder to find words in, so a vertical list seems to be the only sensible solution for now. Sorted either alphabetically, to make the tag easy to find, or head tags at the top & feet tags at the bottom, to convey where the tag appears on the character.
There are plenty of long wiki pages and it's not hard to scroll to the bottom of the wiki page (which I have to do to view all the images on most pages anyway). As for wasting space, as S1eth said, the prose version wastes even more and makes it harder to read (though that doesn't affect the search wiki function). Columns would be nice here, but that might be asking for too much.
I've made so many errors like alice's sash in the past, there are so many tags like waist apron that I've discovered only after tagging hundreds of images with it, I've not bothered tagging so many images that had a feature I couldn't quickly find a tag for and I'm sure others have done so much of this too that I think implementing is far more important that making sure wiki pages look neat and concise from top to bottom.
I think the spoilers part is a legitimate concern. Would covering the lists of spoiler costumes with spoiler tags be enough? What about putting notable spoiler costumes in their own tag, adding a link to that costume, covering that link and posting the uncovered list on that wiki page?
What is so hard about just tagging what you see? I dislike templates because it can cause people to make mistakes by tagging something they think it is but it turns out to be something different.
I think it's just a waste of space to put a huge template that can cause people to either be copy paste or click happy and put incorrect tags on there. Better to miss one tag that to have wrong tags.
Who said it was hard to type tags? It's hard to remember all the tags sometimes and a place to record things like the name for what type of shoes a character wears. I'm not a fashion expert by any stretch, and danbooru uses US English to make it even harder, so this would be very helpful to me.
Edit: And I disagree, if an image has a tag that it shouldn't, unless it's one people commonly blacklist, the incorrect tag will be found and removed much faster than a missing tag will get added.
Edit: Oh and yes, this tool would be open to copy&paste abuse from lazy taggers,but it's easier to spot a lazy tagger that repeatedly copy&pastes than one that never tags anything more than tagme, copyright, character and artist. It might not seem that way because you don't notice an image that didn't appear in your search that should have, but you do notice an image that appeared in your search when it shouldn't have, but that property only draws in taggers to fix it and find repeated offenders.
What S1eth and I are talking about in the end comes down to something that would be used for character identification purposes first and foremost (whether a descriptive paragraph or a template), which I guess is completely useless to you, since all you're asking for is a list of every tag that might be used on the character.
The wiki should be used for character identification purposes and important information, such as series identification or similar. A list of every possible "major" tag that pops up as I've said before is just overkill. Maybe if we could split up a wiki page with collapsible sections, but what advantage do you honestly gain? You need to know what the tag is used for to use it properly, so placing in a long list that you can copy and paste in will lead to just as much incorrect tagging as you end up leaving in tags that sound like they belong, but as it turns out don't. It also means that if you miss removing tags that don't belong you're going to start adding noise to all those tags as well.
Maybe the prose or toned-down version would better then. Things like long_hair and shirt I can understand being overkill, but common errors and tags that danbooru has slightly different definitions for than what's in common use seem like a must to me.
In response to the "You need to know what the tag is used for to use it properly" point, I'd say that you need to know a tag exists to use it as opposed to an incorrect tag, and this would help taggers find those tags and point them to the wiki pages that tell them how to use the tag properly.
