Regarding Western Art

Hello.

I am lead to believe that no western sourced art may be uploaded whatsoever, ever, based on what I have read in the wiki regarding uploading pictures.

I have taken this to mean that no western classical art may be uploaded at any time, regardless of its content, where 'western classical art' shall mean art sourced from the European content between the years of 1200 and 1900 A.D.

I also am lead to believe that there are strict limitations regarding how openly violent a picture is, which effectually rules out all 'decadent' (here used as the name of the artistic movement dating from around 1880 to around 1920), art of any sort, whether it be hand drawn or woodblock or whatever.

Are my basic conclusions (mentioned above), essentially correct or am I misunderstanding the rule?

I ask because I happen to know a good deal of western culture artists whose art could -easily- be classified as an early form of Hentai, (see Felicien Rops, Aubrey Beardsley and others). Of course, none of the artists that are of the type I mention in brief would be considered 'anime artists', the moving picture was in a very early form at the time (or didn't exist yet).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decadent_movement

Far be it from me to challenge the rules of a site that I just got membership on, but I simply mean to be sure that my conclusions are right so that I don't-

A - upload something not allowed.
B - NOT upload something that -would- be allowed.

Thank you.

Why in the world would you want to upload western classical art here? Thats so outside the scope of this site its not even funny.

Rude.

Would you consider a western sourced illustration of a man and a woman in sexual congress hentai or not?

Would you consider a western sourced illustration of a man with a half melted face thats been surgically shut so that he doesn't bleed to death guro or not?

Would you consider a western sourced illustration of a woman and a woman in sexual congress yuri or not?

Would you consider greek homosexual pornography from antiquity yaoi or not?

I could go on but I think you see my point.

Generally, this site is for:

1. Drawn art about characters, concepts, people, and places in Japanese popular media (especially anime and manga), and

2. Art drawn by Japanese artists, if the subject matter is not particularly Japanese.

For further info, check the various guides indexed at help:home.

Abyssal_Bleakness said:
Rude.

Yet not inconsequential. What he lacks in politeness, he tends to make up for in accuracy.

Would you consider a western sourced illustration of a man and a woman in sexual congress hentai or not?

Depends on the image, but most likely, no.

Would you consider a western sourced illustration of a man with a half melted face thats been surgically shut so that he doesn't bleed to death guro or not?

Depends on the level of grisly detail depicted, but probably, yes.

Would you consider a western sourced illustration of a woman and a woman in sexual congress yuri or not?

See the above re: hentai.

Would you consider greek homosexual pornography from antiquity yaoi or not?

Almost guaranteed to be a "no".

Abyssal_Bleakness said:
Rude.

Bite me.

I could go on but I think you see my point.

Your point is meaningless. While those terms can, in theory, be assigned to those situations, so what? Thats not what we're here for.

sgcdonmai said:

1. Drawn art about characters, concepts, people, and places in Japanese popular media (especially anime and manga)

Would you mind if I broadened that just a tiny yet relevant bit?

1. Drawn art about characters, concepts, people, and places in Japanese popular media (especially anime, manga and visual novels)

I don't understand why these things don't count as Hentai, Yuri, or Yaoi?

They depict -exactly- the same themes and bodily positions / sexual positions that the east asian sourced art does, yet they are not Hentai Yuri or Yaoi? Why?

Katajanmarja said:
Would you mind if I broadened that just a tiny yet relevant bit?

You could tack "Japanese produced video games" onto there as well, but those and the VNs are largely implied anyway. Its not like we're going to suddenly eject everything that doesn't come explicitly from Anime or Manga!

Abyssal_Bleakness said:
I don't understand why these things don't count as Hentai, Yuri, or Yaoi?

They depict -exactly- the same themes and bodily positions / sexual positions that the east asian sourced art does, yet they are not Hentai Yuri or Yaoi? Why?

So what, are we having some sort of grand philosophical debate on this issue now?

Why? Why do you care? Even if we did end up agreeing that those terms apply, thats still not what danbooru is for.

Hmm, this sort of seems like an obvious trolling attempt, but I guess I'll bite.

As the others have mentioned, Danbooru is meant to be an image repository for art focusing primarily on Japanese themes and artists.

If you were interested in having a similar repository for western classical art, you might consider setting up a new *booru of your own with that focus.

I started this topic in the forum because I was trying to figure out if western sourced art which depicts the same or very similar themes to east asian sourced art is acceptable as an upload here or not. It was, and still is, intended to be a very simple 'yes or no' answer, and I'm not interested in getting into a grand philosophical debate. I don't have time for it and its a very minor issue. At this point I simply wish for a moderator to make a post in this topic stating explicitly either A or B, where A and B shall equal the following.

A - Western sourced art depicting the same themes as east asian sourced art IS acceptable here.

B - Western sourced art depicting the same themes as east asian sourced art is NOT acceptable here.

Fencedude said:

You could tack "Japanese produced video games" onto there as well, but those and the VNs are largely implied anyway. Its not like we're going to suddenly eject everything (...)!

I almost wrote "games" instead of VNs. I am certainly not afraid of the game stuff being ejected; more like, they make up such a high percentage of the material they deserve to be mentioned (perhaps).

As for the original question -- as Sgcdonmai pointed out, the emphasis here is on Japanese visual culture. Much (most?) of the content is not hentai at all. The definitions Bleakness is debating are largely irrelevant to the purpose of Danbooru. Sgc gave the relevant definitions, and did it pretty damn well.

Abyssal_Bleakness said:
At this point I simply wish for a moderator to make a post in this topic stating explicitly either A or B, where A and B shall equal the following. (snip)

Apparently, you haven't spent the time to read the howto pages. If you had, you would have come across this:

howto:upload:
Art Style

Danbooru is an Anime Art Gallery first, and a high-quality gallery second. Only anime-style art will be accepted. Art which are done in other styles are highly likely to be rejected.

Keep in mind that the howto: pages are reviewed by the moderation staff before going up, thus, what is said there is tantamount to Word of Mod.

You have your answer, I believe.

Katajanmarja said:
Would you mind if I broadened that just a tiny yet relevant bit? (snip)

Feel free, but the parentheticals were merely simple elaborations on "popular media". I'd say video games, VNs, Vocaloid-related things, and all are certainly popular media.

I dislike the fact that I asked a very simple, very basic question and attitudes flared immediately.

And yes, I read the howto regarding uploading, but I read that earlier in the day and didn't immediately remember that detail, mainly because I have an active life which consumes around 90% of all brain power and energy. So I asked for what I thought would be a simple clarification to make sure I understood what I was reading.

My only conclusion to this thats possibly tennable is that your (site in general, not any one specific person) attitude towards art is-

'if it isn't east asian, we don't want it, even if depicts exactly the same thing as the east asian art does'.

I'm not a troll and I don't wish to be viewed as one. As I stated quite clearly, I meant for this to be clarifying in regards to my understanding of what is acceptable to upload here.

I DID NOT intend for this to be trollish. Any construction of it as me being a troll is dead ass wrong and intentional on the part of the poster.

Abyssal_Bleakness said:

'if it isn't east asian, we don't want it, even if depicts exactly the same thing as the east asian art does'.

Correct.

Edit: Oh, and for the record, if you seriously consider my first post to be "rude", you should seriously consider growing a thicker goddamn skin.

sgcdonmai uses a "this is what Danbooru wants" wording:

Generally, this site is for:

1. Drawn art about characters, concepts, people, and places in Japanese popular media (especially anime and manga), and

2. Art drawn by Japanese artists, if the subject matter is not particularly Japanese.

Abyssal_Bleakness uses a "this is what Danbooru does not want" wording:

My only conclusion to this thats possibly tennable is that your (site in general, not any one specific person) attitude towards art is-

'if it isn't east asian, we don't want it, even if depicts exactly the same thing as the east asian art does'.

In closing, I have two questions. Both are easy to answer.

1. If I were to upload a picture that was a clearly anime sourced person(s) and situation (let us say for example the Touhou women doing something somewhere), but this picture is overtly drawn in a western style and by a western artist, would that fact alone make it automatically grounds for removal from the gallery or not? 'Yes' or 'No' is all thats needed.

2. Why did attitudes flare immediately when I started this topic? I don't really understand what I did wrong, since as I've clearly stated, I meant this topic to be a request for clarification to make sure I understood what I was reading regarding certain rules.

Abyssal_Bleakness said:
In closing, I have two questions. Both are easy to answer.

1. If I were to upload a picture that was a clearly anime sourced person(s) and situation (let us say for example the Touhou women doing something somewhere), but this picture is overtly drawn in a western style and by a western artist, would that fact alone make it automatically grounds for removal from the gallery or not? 'Yes' or 'No' is all thats needed.

Depends.

2. Why did attitudes flare immediately when I started this topic? I don't really understand what I did wrong, since as I've clearly stated, I meant this topic to be a request for clarification to make sure I understood what I was reading regarding certain rules.

Attitudes did not flare until you accused me of being rude.

'Thats so far outside the scope of this site its not even funny' sounded to my textural 'ear' like a deliberate attempt to be rude. Note that I have a hard time understanding the intentions of people as it is, text is very hard for me to understand the intentions of. Honestly I'm rather used to people over the internet being deliberately rude because they think that they can get away with it, or they just want to be rude and mean-spirited to someone, so naturally, I assumed you were being deliberately rude to me. My background is such that I am used to also people leaping from normal interactions to the most extreme and violent resolutions they can reach immediately. I've seen people shot, shot and killed, over percieved rudeness.

I believe that my initial conclusion of you being rude to me was misguided largely by my initial experiences of what the internet and the outside world is like. I'm something of a pessimist when it comes to human society. I didn't mean to snap at you but as I said, Fencedude, due to my background and general disposition, I went with an old tendency to leap to the worst possible understanding of what was said, because its what I'm used to.

Basically I asked about this because I saw and have seen several western artists whose themes and subject matter have a degree of similitude with the themes and subject matter here and because I've been reading the howtos and rules and etc piece-meal, so needed some clarification.

In any case, I see absolutely no reason or need for this topic to stay up and open, and wish it to be locked and deleted now. (or as soon as it can possibly be).