...just shut up and admit you like it.
Posted under General
...just shut up and admit you like it.
roastbeefy said:
made_a_maid...just shut up and admit you like it.
Thats totally an eroge title.
Cyberia-Mix said:
I would prefer maid_outfit dealiased too but 14k posts to sort out is somewhat hopeless.
These posts will have to be sorted out either way so I'm not seeing this as a counterargument.
roastbeefy said:
made_a_maid...just shut up and admit you like it.
Better than enmaided at least.
We have precedent saying that we don't distinguish between something pretending to embody a certain characteristic and something actually possessing that characteristic, at least as long as the fact that it's pretending is not eminently visible in the particular picture.
Situation 1: I want pictures of non-maid character kousaka tamaki dressed as a maid. I search kousaka_tamaki maid.
Situation 2: I want pictures of maid character izayoi sakuya not dressed as a maid. I search izayoi_sakuya -maid... which probably doesn't really get me what I want, because people don't tag maid enough where they should. Then I search izayoi_sakuya alternate_costume which is in some sense a hackaround and in some sense a generalization of -maid. Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't. I respectively exult or fume at danbooru users for not tagging images properly.
Situation 3: I want any and all pictures of people dressed in maid costumes, perhaps given some other characteristics that I want them to also have. I search maid other_tags.
Situation 4: I want only pictures of characters who REALLY ARE REAL MAIDS FOR REAL, and not characters who aren't maids but are pretending to be maids, despite me not having any particular character in mind. I am retarded and kill myself with great and terrible haste.
Are there any other tag searching situations relevant to this discussion?
0xCCBA696 said:
Stuff
More seriously though, I had been thinking that for your situation 4 that it might be worthwhile to cover such areas with a tag list of characters where they're canonical in that role. I had been thinking about it in regards to the android tag, since there are plenty of characters that are canonical an android, but would not be tagged as such because they normally don't depict a trait to receive the tag.
In regards to this idea of trying to de-alias maid_outfit from maid, I just don't understand what you guys are thinking. The maid tag is maid_outfit, they are one and the same. There is nothing that should separate them, as the only reason one should tag an image maid, is because the character is wearing a maid outfit. We don't care if someone is canonical a maid, if they aren't wearing a maid outfit they won't receive the maid tag.
Frankly, the alternative_costume + maid search seems like it should be all that is needed instead of a specific tag for this concept. The reason we have tags like bespectacled, is because we don't have some type of higher tag/s that could give us the same results. The same really can't be said about this enmaiden/whatever tag. If it's something so special, why not make it a pool then? It honestly seems like a similar idea to pool #208.
To be honest, while I think things like bespectacled and no_glasses are a useful intuitively, it gets all sorts of meta on the tagging system.
Basically the semantics we are asking for here are the following for random tag X:
1. Vanilla Presence (X): Used everywhere X appears
2. Exceptional Presence: X featured on a character that doesn't typically feature X
3. Exceptional Absence: X not featured on a character that would be expected to feature X
4. Vanilla Absence (-X): X not present, often fails due to lack of tagging of X where appropriate
This sounds like something that ought to be done by a mechanic augmenting the tag system, and would likely be based somehow on hierarchical tagging, since the exception is context sensitive to a specific character and specific to a given tag X. From previous discussion though, that probably isn't feasible.
The best we can do is standardize our methodology of coining these, but even then it sort of sounds like we are going to end up with an explosion of tags if we start applying it to everything. That may not be a good thing.
Updated
NWF_Renim said: I'm not sure I fully follow the alternate_costume maid_outfit suggestion, since maid_outfit was aliased to maid during forum #23139. So your suggestion is actually a alternate_costume maid search, which does pull up 2 pages of stuff.
I've recently been thinking that we need to flip that alias to emphasize that maid is for the outfit, and not the person's job.
Well, for what it's worth, I agree, and did in that thread too, but did the alias the other way for practical reasons. I'm not against reversing it if people support that.
Although the alias to reverse it would probably take days and dozens of restarts to complete... ugh.
Shinjidude said: This sounds like something that ought to be done by a mechanic augmenting the tag system, and would likely be based somehow on hierarchical tagging, since the exception is context sensitive to a specific character and specific to a given tag X.
Certainly, there are better ways in theory to do things.
But we have the system we have, and have to make decisions right here and now about posts that already exist. ::shrug:: Dreams for better methods are great and necessary but at present we don't even have global tag counts on posts and searches or stats in profiles, so I'm more than willing to jury-rig not-really-ideal solutions together as needed in the meantime. I don't think we'll be seeing fancy hierarchical tagging any time soon.
Shinjidude said: The best we can do is standardize our methodology of coining these, but even then it sort of sounds like we are going to end up with an explosion of tags if we start applying it to everything. That may not be a good thing.
It won't explode, because if someone wants it for a phenomenon that doesn't occur much, I'll just say no. =P This is being accepted purely due to its frequency and thus presumably level of interest. I'm wiling to curb-stomp consistency when there's a reasonable argument for doing so.
jxh2154 said: It won't explode, because if someone wants it for a phenomenon that doesn't occur much, I'll just say no. =P This is being accepted purely due to its frequency and thus presumably level of interest.
And that's what I was banking on when I proposed this.
The *_mode-type tags (eg, kemonomimi_mode, bespectacled, etc.) should only be exceptions, not a standard.
Alternate_costume maid_outfit is fine with me, and I'm not against reversing the alias. It might be less ambiguous in the other direction. I can see alternate_costume going under-tagged though.
My post above was more an observation and caution against requesting a lot of "exceptional presence" and "exceptional absence" tags for everything, since it doesn't scale or work particularly effectively with our current system.
If we are having load issues with the features we have, it's not a good time to start implementing anything more ambitious server-side, and I wasn't suggesting that we should right now.
Shinjidude said: I can see alternate_costume going under-tagged though.
That's basically it. enmaided (or whatever) is probably much more likely to catch on.
Should we have it implicate alternate_costume?
If we are decided on creating an exceptional presence tag, of the options put forward so far, I guess I'll +1 enmaided. They all sound dumb to me, but enmaided sounds the best so far.
The implication sounds ok to me. I'm pretty sure by being an exceptional presence, it would almost have to be an alternate_costume to whatever the default would have been, right?
Concurring with what Shinji said, an alternate_costume implication sounds appropriate.
There should be an 'enmaided -> maid' implication as well. Though, I'm not sure if multiple implications for one tag are supported. If not, alternate_costume should take precedence, since it's more obscure and less likely to be tagged than maid.
(and yes, I think enmaided sounds the best by far, too.)