Donmai

alias Wisadel -> Wis'adel

Posted under Tags

Prismsea

Wis'adel often has the apostrophe omitted in searches and conversation, so typing "wisadel" should direct users to "wis'adel_(arknights)"

Wisadel is not the correct spelling but technically Wis'adel isn't either, although i don't think even a single soul on this planet has searched for this character by typing "Wiš'adel" (which is the canon/correct spelling)

Reply
Prismsea

BUR #34771 has been approved by @evazion.

create alias wisadel_(arknights) -> wis'adel_(arknights)

*copy-pasted since i didn't fully understand how to post this request until 1 minute ago

while wisadel_(arknights) has no uses, Wis'adel often has the apostrophe omitted in searches and conversation, so typing "wisadel" should direct users to "wis'adel_(arknights)"

Wisadel is not the correct spelling but technically Wis'adel isn't either, although i don't think even a single soul on this planet has searched for this character by typing "Wiš'adel" (which is the canon/correct spelling)

Reply
ANON TOKYO Ylimegirl koramazon sabisabi The Bob Login to view baconmeh2 Arianrhod Prismsea notfrontloaded WRS nukleer
blindVigil

Damian0358 said:

BUR #35587 has been approved by @evazion.

create alias wish'adel_(arknights) -> wis'adel_(arknights)
create alias wishadel_(arknights) -> wis'adel_(arknights)

Following Pozyomka's example.

I'm not sure this is quite the same situation? Pozy's tag is Pozyomka because tags can't have accents and that's the proper transliteration of "Pozëmka". Then, Pozemka is aliased to it, because people are absolutely going to type "pozemka" sans accent into the search bar because that's technically how it's spelled in-game, so it's needed. It's not really about pronunciation.

Wis'adel is pronounced Wish'adel, but that's not what people are going to type into the search bar. They're going to use Wis'adel, or Wisadel, because that's how it's spelled in-game and that's already what the tag is called. I don't see an actual benefit to aliasing the pronunciation.

Reply
Damian0358

blindVigil said:

I'm not sure this is quite the same situation? Pozy's tag is Pozyomka because tags can't have accents and that's the proper transliteration of "Pozëmka". Then, Pozemka is aliased to it, because people are absolutely going to type "pozemka" sans accent into the search bar because that's technically how it's spelled in-game, so it's needed. It's not really about pronunciation.

Wis'adel is pronounced Wish'adel, but that's not what people are going to type into the search bar. They're going to use Wis'adel, or Wisadel, because that's how it's spelled in-game and that's already what the tag is called. I don't see an actual benefit to aliasing the pronunciation.

But it's not spelled Wis'adel in-game, it's spelled Wiš'adel, and that's what Arknights uses on its socials too.

Reply
blindVigil

Damian0358 said:

But it's not spelled Wis'adel in-game, it's spelled Wiš'adel, and that's what Arknights uses on its socials too.

Oh, so it is. I don't use her and half pretend she doesn't exist so I didn't notice.

Shouldn't these aliases be reversed, then? That would make it more in line with how we handled Pozëmka and other accented names.

Otherwise I would argue all those other cases should be made to follow after Wis'adel's example. Making what is likely the most commonly searched version of the name an alias instead of the main tag name probably looks stupid to everyone but us. I don't expect that to be a particularly well received course of action, though.

Updated

Reply
Damian0358

blindVigil said:

Shouldn't these aliases be reversed, then? That would make it more in line with how we handled Pozëmka and other accented names.

Otherwise I would argue all those other cases should be made to follow after Wis'adel's example. Making what is likely the most commonly searched version of the name an alias instead of the main tag name probably looks stupid to everyone but us. I don't expect that to be a particularly well received course of action, though.

Maybe, but my recent thread on romanizations (topic #30058) also discussed diacritics/accented names and it seems that actually rendering them in names is inconsistent on Danbooru. Arknights and Azur Lane might've chosen to render the diacritics, but in Azur Lane's case that overlaps more with the military tagging side of Danbooru, since Senkishi Brunnhilde [Senkishi Brünnhilde], Nurburgring [Nürburgring], and FC Bayern Munchen [FC Bayern München] are all rendered without them in contrast to Bluecher [Blücher] and Goering [Göring].

In Arknights' sake, it is just because Ë is just an uncommon choice for a letter in English that the community pushed hard for people to realize it's Pozyomka and not Pozemka... something Š doesn't have the benefit of, being a fairly common accented letter, and another thing Slavic languages don't have in contrast to German is semi-standardized means of transliterating accents, often rendering them 'bald'. So people aren't as fussed in rendering Wiš'adel as Wis'adel, hence my initial choice to just have the pronunciations as utility aliases, as I don't think it is the most searched version of the name in contrast to Pozyomka.

Reply
blindVigil

Damian0358 said:

In Arknights' sake, it is just because Ë is just an uncommon choice for a letter in English that the community pushed hard for people to realize it's Pozyomka and not Pozemka... something Š doesn't have the benefit of, being a fairly common accented letter, and another thing Slavic languages don't have in contrast to German is semi-standardized means of transliterating accents, often rendering them 'bald'. So people aren't as fussed in rendering Wiš'adel as Wis'adel, hence my initial choice to just have the pronunciations as utility aliases, as I don't think it is the most searched version of the name in contrast to Pozyomka.

The thing with that is that the Arknights translators made a very bizarre choice regarding Pozëmka. Rather than fully transliterating her name like they did with characters like Zima (Зима) or Istina (Истина), they for whatever reason elected to half transliterate her name. Rather than rendering Позёмка as Pozyomka, which would have been consistent with previous operators, they went with Pozëmka. According to people more familiar with the language than I could ever be, the "ё" in Позёмка is not the same thing as the Latin ë, and it really should have just been written Pozyomka, hence why people made such a big deal of it. It looked like a lazy, "Well these things look the same, so just use that." decision. Not the first time the EN translators did something stupid. It's not so much about it being uncommon, but just being flatout wrong for it to be written as Pozëmka.

Wiš'adel doesn't really have that same, "Why would they do something that stupid?" energy, so naturally there was little hullabaloo over it. As far as I know, Wiš'adel is just Wiš'adel. The translators didn't do anything stupid there, so the players had other reasons to be upset about her.

Updated

Reply
Damian0358

blindVigil said:

The thing with that is that the Arknights translators made a very bizarre choice regarding Pozëmka. Rather than fully transliterating her name like they did with characters like Zima (Зима) or Istina (Истина), they for whatever reason elected to half transliterate her name. Rather than rendering Позёмка as Pozyomka, which would have been consistent with previous operators, they went with Pozëmka. According to people more familiar with the language than I could ever be, the "ё" in Позёмка is not the same thing as the Latin ë, and it really should have just been written Pozyomka, hence why people made such a big deal of it. It looked like a lazy, "Well these things look the same, so just use that." decision. Not the first time the EN translators did something stupid. It's not so much about it being uncommon, but just being flatout wrong for it to be written as Pozëmka.

I mean, it is a fairly weird choice, but I wouldn't call it "half-transliterated". They just decided to be spicy with it, especially as, as I pointed out, ë is uncommon in Latin scripts generally, and some official Russian transliterations do actually render ё as ë, in specific ISO 9. Russian does not have a standardized means of romanization, and of the various standards you can see this same tendency - you can actually see that 'yo' is only used in one of the standards listed in the table at the end (2 if we want to include 'jo'), with e and ë being more common instead (which is why in English it's Mikhail Gorbachev instead of Gorbachov, despite using ё). By all accounts, they were perfectly in their right to use ë in this instance. And if we're bringing up the Russian characters, let's talk about how Gummy is actually just Gum (Гум).

heartattack said:

Meanwhile, Młynar

Are we just rolling with however the fanbase tends to write it?

blindVigil said:

Despite the pronunciation of Ł being W, I believe L is actually the accepted transliteration for it? So, unintuitively, Mlynar (arknights) is actually correct.

It's accepted, but just because there hasn't been any standard established to write it any other way by the time SMS et al appeared. Writing letters like that 'bald' became the common practice among native writers because accessing the diacritics was difficult and it was assumed that a native reader would be able to intuit from context whether or not the diacritic was missing, and since foreigners, particularly English speakers, already always dropped diacritics, nothing was done to correct that. So Mlynar is correct per current standards, but it does nothing to actually render how it is said. Transliteration from one Latin-using language to another has always been inconsistent in English, and especially so from Slavic languages.

Updated

Reply
blindVigil

Damian0358 said:

I mean, it is a fairly weird choice, but I wouldn't call it "half-transliterated". They just decided to be spicy with it, especially as, as I pointed out, ë is uncommon in Latin scripts generally, and some official Russian transliterations do actually render ё as ë, in specific ISO 9. Russian does not have a standardized means of romanization, and of the various standards you can see this same tendency - you can actually see that 'yo' is only used in one of the standards listed in the table at the end (2 if we want to include 'jo'), with e and ë being more common instead (which is why in English it's Mikhail Gorbachev instead of Gorbachov, despite using ё). By all accounts, they were perfectly in their right to use ë in this instance. And if we're bringing up the Russian characters, let's talk about how Gummy is actually just Gum (Гум).

I did say, "People more familiar than I could ever be." Frankly I don't understand a lot of choices regarding the Operators' EN names, with Gummy being one of them. At least Gummy's original name is displayed in-game above her EN name, unlike Pozëmka.

So Mlynar is correct per current standards, but it does nothing to actually render how it is said.

I didn't exactly argue to the contrary. It's simply a fact that there's no established standard that says "Mlynar" is wrong, and it wouldn't make sense for us to insist on writing it as "Mwynar" when no one, fans or otherwise, are writing it that way.

Which all brings me back to my original opinion. We've covered why both "Pozemka" and "Pozyomka" are needed, but do we need "Wish'adel"? Is there anyone writing it that way, besides to explain how it's pronounced? Utility aliases are to help searching, not represent intended pronunciations. Google recognizes all three of "Pozëmka," "Pozemka," and "Pozyomka," and all three come up in results, often in tandem. But it corrects me if I search "Wish'adel." The only results that render it that way are either explaining its pronunciation or discussing its meaning.

No one writes it that way, which makes it look like a pointless alias. We don't need useless aliases for the sake of consistency with tags that exist under different circumstances.

Reply
Damian0358

blindVigil said:

We've covered why both "Pozemka" and "Pozyomka" are needed, but do we need "Wish'adel"? Is there anyone writing it that way, besides to explain how it's pronounced? Utility aliases are to help searching, not represent intended pronunciations. Google recognizes all three of "Pozëmka," "Pozemka," and "Pozyomka," and all three come up in results, often in tandem. But it corrects me if I search "Wish'adel." The only results that render it that way are either explaining its pronunciation or discussing its meaning.

No one writes it that way, which makes it look like a pointless alias. We don't need useless aliases for the sake of consistency with tags that exist under different circumstances.

Here I had thought that in my earlier searching I had genuinely seen users writing it that way in contexts which aren't on elaborating the pronunciation or meaning, which made me feel comfortable enough to at least propose it as utility aliases, since their usage compared to the nonaccented versions is far lesser in comparison. I wouldn't have proposed it just for consistency purposes.

But if whoever is handling the BURs at the moment feels that that isn't enough, then both BURs can be rejected by them no problem. We've had the discussion and a decision, whatever it may be, had been made, and we can file that down for the record.

Reply
1