Game specific item tags can be considered useless if they strongly look like their real-world counterparts.

BUR #30016 has been rejected.

mass update music_disc_(minecraft) -> -music_disc_(minecraft) record
mass update minecraft_shield -> shield -minecraft_shield
mass update wither_skull -> skull -wither_skull
mass update soul_lantern -> -soul_lantern lantern

There's no point of making overly copyright-specific tag for "fictional" objects that strongly resemble its real-life counterparts. While the more general tags already exist. It's borderline padding.

• The music disc from Minecraft strongly look like its real life counterpart, without all the pixelation.
• Real shields are also commonly large and rectangular.
• Included wither_skull because it's just human skull colored black.
• Soul lantern is just a regular lantern that glows light blue.

Here, I'm not going to include cake_(minecraft) due to its distinct characteristic, white creamy top with red topping. As well as clock (minecraft), different from real clocks.

It's minecraft shield not shield (minecraft)

BUR #30017 has been rejected.

mass update Minecraft_axe -> axe -minecraft_axe
mass update Minecraft_pickaxe -> pickaxe -minecraft_pickaxe
mass update Minecraft_sword -> sword -minecraft_sword
mass update wither_rose -> black_rose -wither_Rose
mass update splash_potion -> potion -splash_potion
mass update golden_carrot -> carrot -golden_carrot

Second batch, potentially controversial. Because the fundamental principle of tagging should be predominantly based on what appears on the image, not excessive reliance on canonical knowledge. We do not need to be that pedantic. People will barely search for these items.

• While these are intended to be used for pixelated tools and swords, on reality they are used on their realistic-looking counterpart. We do not use specific tags for Minecraft shovel, hoe and shears either.
• Simply a dark-colored chest. Removed ender chest.
• It's just a black flower.
• Looks like a regular potion in general, but sometimes pixelated.
• A regular carrot, gold in color.

In both these burs even you yourself list some of the differences. Basically every single one of these is visually unique to at least some degree, and they're all used in cases where the Minecraft ones are specifically referenced. We don't get rid of every pistol tag because they're all "basically the same just with some differing bits and pieces glued on".

I only think music disc (minecraft), minecraft shield and wither rose should be removed. If we had a black skull tag I would be fine with getting rid of wither skull but we don't so it should stay. Everything else has noticeable differences from the real-life object.

Now I'm gonna go into depth on minecraft_sword here, but I'd argue this holds for most of the tags under debate here.

I personally don't see how something like minecraft_sword differs from say excalibur_(fate/stay_night) or sword_of_hisou. All of these require canonical knowledge to name, otherwise they are just a cyan sword (for diamond), ornate two-handed sword and red-yellow gradient lightsaber.

While it is true that minecraft_swords are pixelated (in the default texture pack), popular games with a pixel_art art style will have fan art using a different style. To say that a minecraft_sword stops being that when it is no longer pixelated is wrong in my opinion. When I see a sword in one of the minecraft sword colors being held by a minecraft character, or another character in a minecraft world, "tag what you see" still makes me think minecraft_sword.

Alternatively, should post #6021518 be tagged sword_of_hisou? The original one is not pixelated like that, and I can not even see a hilt here. If I am not, as you say, "relying on a lot of canonical knowledge", I'd say this character is holding some kind of pixelated energy beam?

But basically every tagger will go "hinanawi_tenshi + red/orange/yellow stick = sword_of_hisou" because that is just how humans deal with concepts. Tagging what you see still relies on some bit of knowledge, because that is how our brain makes sense of "what you see". In the same way I and probably a lot of others will "see" a minecraft_sword when they see alex_(minecraft) or steve_(minecraft) holding a cyan sword.

Even if the sword is not cyan but silver colored, if the setting is clearly minecraft a lot of people will "see" a minecraft_sword. If the setting is not minecraft, but e.g pokemon, it would take a pixelated sword in minecraft's style to make them "see" a minecraft sword.

To me at least, that is what "tag what you see" means and why I do not agree with removing tags like these.

I made some of these specifically because the object is often drawn differently to their actual in-game style, such as shields, when they have a distinctive design in game - wooden and perfectly rectangular with an iron trim and the ability to have banners displayed. But artists can draw Minecraft settings or characters with different shields, or swords, etc.

I don't mind removing music disc (minecraft) and wither rose, though, even though I created them.

Ender chest is particularly silly to call "just a real world item in a game".

BUR #30036 has been rejected.

mass update music_disc_(minecraft) -> record -music_disc_(minecraft)
mass update wither_rose -> black_rose -wither_rose

Alternative BUR with only these two.

Trouble_Windows said:

Ender chest is particularly silly to call "just a real world item in a game".

Honestly, this entire thread just feels like a case of "I don't actively interact with this thing but I'll form some opinions on it regardless".

Trouble_Windows said:

BUR #30036 has been rejected.

mass update music_disc_(minecraft) -> record -music_disc_(minecraft)
mass update wither_rose -> black_rose -wither_rose

Alternative BUR with only these two.

Both the music disc and the wither rose are specific objects with a specific aesthetic, used in a specific situation, that's more than enough reason to keep the tag.

I would almost agree with the above if only the images tagged with them featured actually distinct objects. Wither Rose especially, with the posts currently tagged with it, is just a black rose - the only thing is "situational" which is... a black rose in a Minecraft picture. I don't think that's a keeper.

A select few of these items can just be migrated but items with an actually specific aesthetic shouldn't get moved. Wither Rose and record discs I believe should absolutely get moved but there's a bit more nuance to consider with the weapons/equipment. For example, the shield is distinct enough in design (a square wooden shield) that it shouldn't get removed.

I agree with the ones that are literally indistinguishable from real world objects (e.g. music discs), or that look like something that could appear in any other game as a generic object, being nuked. Ender chests have a very specific design that you wouldn't see anywhere else unless it was a direct reference.

Minecraft sword and similar are weird because they're only even recognizeable when in Minecraft's "style". They look totally generic when drawn in other styles. Nothing about https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/6856770 looks like it has anything to do with Minecraft if you didn't know this was supposed to depict something these characters did while playing the game. That's a totally generic wooden sword and shield. Being square doesn't make the shield any less generic looking.

blindVigil said:

I agree with the ones that are literally indistinguishable from real world objects (e.g. music discs), or that look like something that could appear in any other game as a generic object, being nuked. Ender chests have a very specific design that you wouldn't see anywhere else unless it was a direct reference.

Minecraft sword and similar are weird because they're only even recognizeable when in Minecraft's "style". They look totally generic when drawn in other styles. Nothing about https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/6856770 looks like it has anything to do with Minecraft if you didn't know this was supposed to depict something these characters did while playing the game. That's a totally generic wooden sword and shield. Being square doesn't make the shield any less generic looking.

I'm not super attached to minecraft shield since there isn't too many non-Minecraft shields in the Minecraft tag, but I think getting rid of the swords and pickaxes would be a recipe for disaster as it would leave you with no way to search specifically for a character wielding a diamond or netherite sword/pickaxe rather than a generic one.

(Also, I know nothing about Hololive, I didn't know this was based on any specific in game happening when I tagged it. I tagged it because... The shield matches the Minecraft shield design. Perfectly rectangular, wooden, and with an iron trim. I tagged what I saw.)

A lot of the arguments being made in favor of nuking these tags just aren't very good. Like the "no one is searching these items" argument earlier in the thread - I am, because I enjoy Minecraft. It's why I tag gardened many of these in the first place. And if you go with that argument, you'd have to start applying it to other things too, like the list of pokemon objects so long it needs a dedicated wiki page.

And even when it comes to things looking generic if you put them in a vacuum... That applies to many other series-specific objects that are tagged here as well? I think the Touhou example earlier does a good job at illustrating this.

I do also think this BUR is particularly silly given Red Terror was arguing earlier over renaming zombie pigman to zombified piglin over a trivial change in texture that has little effect on how the character is drawn.

While I still disagree with removing most tags listed here for reasons given in my earlier post, I do want to argue that most people searching minecraft do not want to see post #6856770. This is not Minecraft. The characters are from another copyright, the setting is not minecraft, and all I see here is a generic wooden sword and square shield as featured in countless medieval RPGs.

Instead of removing these tags completely, perhaps we should discuss untagging them from posts like this. We could always make a pool for a specific streamer's or vtuber's playthrough of minecraft. But posts like post #7981964 just aren't minecraft - that's a dude with a sword and a carrier pigeon. If I want to see art of technoblade (R.I.P) I will search that tag.

With the rapidly increasing popularity of streamers and vtubers over the past decade, we might even consider making some kind of tagging rule+system for this, to separate "in-universe" things from stuff like streamers, fandom generated content etc.

Say we have two tags, minecraft and minecraft_fandom. post #7947064 would be minecraft, post #7981964 would be minecraft_fandom, and post #7952264 would be both. Now I can exclude one while searching to see only fanart of actual minecraft in-game stuff, or I can allow vtubers and the like into my search results.

Edit: I see we have minecraft_youtube already which functions like this. I argue that this is both too narrow (both the name, and the wiki limiting it to western content - what about the countless hololive playthroughs?) and a lot of posts with this should not be tagged minecraft.

When I currently search minecraft, the majority (not even hyperbole) of posts one page 1 are of characters I do not know. I play a lot of minecraft, but I am not actively following streamers or vtubers when it comes to minecraft. In my opinion, we could use a system to separate this - and not just for minecraft.

wekateka said:

While I still disagree with removing most tags listed here for reasons given in my earlier post, I do want to argue that most people searching minecraft do not want to see post #6856770. This is not Minecraft. The characters are from another copyright, the setting is not minecraft, and all I see here is a generic wooden sword and square shield as featured in countless medieval RPGs.

Instead of removing these tags completely, perhaps we should discuss untagging them from posts like this. We could always make a pool for a specific streamer's or vtuber's playthrough of minecraft. But posts like post #7981964 just aren't minecraft - that's a dude with a sword and a carrier pigeon. If I want to see art of technoblade (R.I.P) I will search that tag.

With the rapidly increasing popularity of streamers and vtubers over the past decade, we might even consider making some kind of tagging rule+system for this, to separate "in-universe" things from stuff like streamers, fandom generated content etc.

Say we have two tags, minecraft and minecraft_fandom. post #7947064 would be minecraft, post #7981964 would be minecraft_fandom, and post #7952264 would be both. Now I can exclude one while searching to see only fanart of actual minecraft in-game stuff, or I can allow vtubers and the like into my search results.

Edit: I see we have minecraft_youtube already which functions like this. I argue that this is both too narrow (both the name, and the wiki limiting it to western content - what about the countless hololive playthroughs?) and a lot of posts with this should not be tagged minecraft.

When I currently search minecraft, the majority (not even hyperbole) of posts one page 1 are of characters I do not know. I play a lot of minecraft, but I am not actively following streamers or vtubers when it comes to minecraft. In my opinion, we could use a system to separate this - and not just for minecraft.

We already don't tag minecraft on MCYT posts that don't have stuff from Minecraft. (Though I do see your point and I'll clean up some of the more liberal taggings.)

And it's limited to Western because it's a copyright tag for a specific group of overlapping creators. Hololive is completely irrelevant to the type of people interested in said content.

Trouble_Windows said:

We already don't tag minecraft on MCYT posts that don't have stuff from Minecraft. (Though I do see your point and I'll clean up some of the more liberal taggings.)

And it's limited to Western because it's a copyright tag for a specific group of overlapping creators. Hololive is completely irrelevant to the type of people interested in said content.

Fair, but in that case we might need a minecraft_hololive tag, with an overarching minecraft_fandom tag. Hololive might be completely irrelevant to people interested in minecraft_youtube, but it is even more so irrelevant to minecraft itself.

For example post #7314373 and the earlier mentioned post #6856770 are not minecraft to me. I see that you tagged #7314373 as minecraft and sweet_berries_(minecraft), but I see no minecraft there at all. No blocky, pixelated landscape, no iconic characters (creepers, endermen, villagers, steve, etc), no objects that say minecraft except for those ambiguous red berries.

If I look at the minecraft sprite of sweet berries I can see that these are a realistic version of that sprite, true. But this still does not warrant the minecraft tag to me. If I search minecraft, I do not expect to see 2 non-minecraft hololive members in a non-minecraft forest, under a non-minecraft sky, with non-minecraft birds in the background, without any minecraft elements except for some ambiguous berries that also occur in real life and other media.

If that post had a creeper behind a tree, or one of the characters carried a pixelated sword or pickaxe, or there was an enderchest or anything that says minecraft when the context is NOT minecraft to begin with I could understand it. But I can just not see how this is minecraft. The actions are not even minecraft, which has no rope traps as far as I know.

I know I might seem a bit ranting/pedantic here, my apologies for that. Maybe this is also off-topic to this BUR, but to me this seems a big underlying issue to both this BUR but also increasingly other copyrights with a lot of fan-created content.

wekateka said:

Fair, but in that case we might need a minecraft_hololive tag, with an overarching minecraft_fandom tag. Hololive might be completely irrelevant to people interested in minecraft_youtube, but it is even more so irrelevant to minecraft itself.

For example post #7314373 and the earlier mentioned post #6856770 are not minecraft to me. I see that you tagged #7314373 as minecraft and sweet_berries_(minecraft), but I see no minecraft there at all. No blocky, pixelated landscape, no iconic characters (creepers, endermen, villagers, steve, etc), no objects that say minecraft except for those ambiguous red berries.

If I look at the minecraft sprite of sweet berries I can see that these are a realistic version of that sprite, true. But this still does not warrant the minecraft tag to me. If I search minecraft, I do not expect to see 2 non-minecraft hololive members in a non-minecraft forest, under a non-minecraft sky, with non-minecraft birds in the background, without any minecraft elements except for some ambiguous berries that also occur in real life and other media.

If that post had a creeper behind a tree, or one of the characters carried a pixelated sword or pickaxe, or there was an enderchest or anything that says minecraft when the context is NOT minecraft to begin with I could understand it. But I can just not see how this is minecraft. The actions are not even minecraft, which has no rope traps as far as I know.

I know I might seem a bit ranting/pedantic here, my apologies for that. Maybe this is also off-topic to this BUR, but to me this seems a big underlying issue to both this BUR but also increasingly other copyrights with a lot of fan-created content.

This is fair, like I said, I'm cleaning up some of the more ambiguous taggings. Though I think a minecraft_fandom tag like you're suggesting is very unnecessary, we don't have a pokemon_fandom tag or whatever else.

Some of my minecraft tags were going off the logic that if it's tagged a Minecraft object it should also be tagged Minecraft, but TBH I see no reason why that post can't just be tagged sweet_berries_(minecraft) without Minecraft.

A lot of my tag gardening here has been because I really like Minecraft and like the ability to search for things from it, regardless of what other copyright is there.

Trouble_Windows said:

This is fair, like I said, I'm cleaning up some of the more ambiguous taggings. Though I think a minecraft_fandom tag like you're suggesting is very unnecessary, we don't have a pokemon_fandom tag or whatever else.

Some of my minecraft tags were going off the logic that if it's tagged a Minecraft object it should also be tagged Minecraft, but TBH I see no reason why that post can't just be tagged sweet_berries_(minecraft) without Minecraft.

A lot of my tag gardening here has been because I really like Minecraft and like the ability to search for things from it, regardless of what other copyright is there.

First of all thanks for the nice discussion! I completely understand your point of view, and I agree having "_fandom" tags like that would need to reach wider than just minecraft, and probably isn't the best way to do this (nor would it gain adoption). It is probably for the best to leave most of this under minecraft for now, if it becomes a problem for enough people this discussion might start up again.

I think I'm gonna leave it at this before we hijack this BUR even more than we already have, just let me end this with saying that I really appreciate the work you and other tag gardeners put in - none of this was meant as complaining. Now I'm off to play some minecraft!

The bulk update request #30017 (forum #298473) has been rejected by @nonamethanks.

The bulk update request #30016 (forum #298471) has been rejected by @nonamethanks.

This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.