Ratings for non-sex sex acts

So this just popped up on the Discord, there doesn't seem to be much of a consensus on what constitutes a sex act when it's not literally sex, or when there's no penis involved.

The post concerned is a breast sucking post (post #7843571), which, IMO, is most definitely an "explicit sex act", but because it's not listed under the examples in howto:rate there seems to be an argument going on whether it truly is one. It seems bizarre to consider groping (even minor groping) and very in-your-face breast sucking both as Q. I feel like this mostly stems from the fact that howto:rate focuses on hetero sex acts, but regardless, some line probably should probably be drawn.

This is the kind of rules lawyering I would expect from reg panda, not a couple of builders edit warring a rating. Sex isn't just about penetration, there's a lot more physical intimacy than just penetrative sex that counts as sex acts. It's weird that we'd need to have that explicitly in writing, and even if we did, it's already in writing. "Including" does not mean "limited to", don't know how we're seeing two grown people sucking breasts as non-sexual.

Breast sucking isn't "hardcore", it's "softcore".
It's pretty obvious that rating:q is aiming at softcore, therefore the post in question is never e. Doesn't matter if it's hetero or not.
Or would you really rate every breast sucking image as e, like post #7963905?

"rating:questionable - Softcore erotica. Simple nudity or near-nudity, but no explicit sex or exposed genitals."
Last I checked, breasts aren't genitals, and sucking on breasts isn't sex, therefore it's quite obviously rating:Q.

I'd like a definition of what counts as softcore vs hardcore. I consider nipple stimulation (like post #7960049) and breast sucking to be hardcore sexual acts, but clearly some people disagree which is why I'd like a clear definition.

Just mouth-to-breast stuff shouldn't be considered anywhere near the level of straight up sex. If there was lactation then it would be E since that's a bodily fluid.

There is also rating:q cunnilingus, where, I believe most pictures are against the intent of the creators of howto:rate. Do most of these depict sex acts? Yes. Do these depict explicit sex acts? Who can tell, I don't even know what that supposed to mean.

reg_panda said:

There is also rating:q cunnilingus, where, I believe most pictures are against the intent of the creators of howto:rate. Do most of these depict sex acts? Yes. Do these depict explicit sex acts? Who can tell, I don't even know what that supposed to mean.

Most of these are clearly misrated.

"Explicit sex acts, including sex, fellatio, masturbation, handjobs, fingering, sex toy use, etc, whether censored or uncensored."
Cunnilingus is for the "etc." part.

You are right, it is the counterpart of fellatio, clearly in under etc.

My opinion is that it's Q on its own, this is not an admin ruling.

Unbreakable said:

My opinion is that it's Q on its own, this is not an admin ruling.

So, you agree with the idea that Q should be applied to nipple sucking images? What about what Bionicman76 said? They brought an interesting question, and is if we should apply the E rating when lactation is present.

SlaughteredMelon said:

So, you agree with the idea that Q should be applied to nipple sucking images? What about what Bionicman76 said? They brought an interesting question, and is if we should apply the E rating when lactation is present.

These are bodily fluids.
"Bodily fluids, including cum, used condoms, and pussy juice."
One could argue that milk doesn't fall under that. But I wager e should apply here.

Provence said:

One could argue that milk doesn't fall under that. But I wager e should apply here.

I agree with you.
Well, it seems like lactation is the only reason we could use to apply the E rating to nipple sucking posts.

If there's no genital stimulation and no genital fluids (cum, pussy juice, anal fluid, maybe lactation) then it could be Q or E depending on the context. Someone cumming from having her breasts sucked on is definitely E, while simply having her nipple poked is just Q.

Provence said:

Or would you really rate every breast sucking image as e, like post #7963905?

I mean, yeah? Sounds about right to me. I still fail to see how this wouldn't be considered an explicit sex act.

I saw people on Discord bring up how "just because it's a girl it's E" and like, again, yeah? A topless dude is S, a topless girl is Q too in our ratings, there's an inherent asymmetry present.

AngryZapdos said:

If there's no genital stimulation and no genital fluids (cum, pussy juice, anal fluid, maybe lactation) then it could be Q or E depending on the context. Someone cumming from having her breasts sucked on is definitely E, while simply having her nipple poked is just Q.

Simple nipple poking being Q lines up with the current approach of most hand-boob interactions being considered "mild sexual contact", which seems fair to me. But even after this thread so far I fail to see how such very explicit breast sucking can be considered just as mild.

MiiaBestLamia said:

"rating:questionable - Softcore erotica. Simple nudity or near-nudity, but no explicit sex or exposed genitals."
Last I checked, breasts aren't genitals, and sucking on breasts isn't sex, therefore it's quite obviously rating:Q.

Our requirements for tagging sex are already relatively restrictive, so I assume this isn't to be taken into account when talking about "sex acts". And I still fail to see an actual argument as to why breast sucking wouldn't be considered a lesbian sex act. Yes, it'd be different because of the genders involved, this wouldn't be the first time. I'm not seeing at a how post #7466743 and post #7963905 can be considered mild sexual contact, because the second one sure doesn't look like mild sexual contact to me.

岩戸鈴芽 said:
And I still fail to see an actual argument as to why breast sucking wouldn't be considered a lesbian sex act. Yes, it'd be different because of the genders involved, this wouldn't be the first time. I'm not seeing at a how post #7466743 and post #7963905 can be considered mild sexual contact, because the second one sure doesn't look like mild sexual contact to me.

Who said anything about it not being yuri/lesbian? The first one is absolutely mild, no question, some could probably argue that it could be rated as sensitive.

The second one is definitely sexual in nature, but there's nothing here thats hentai-level stuff, if there was genitalia or anything else sure but this is pretty tame, post #7963905 can't be equated with posts such as post #7996125.

I'm seriously lost as how hetero and yuri have any relevance to this topic. Fingering is fingering regardless of being a man and a woman or two women. Kissing is kissing, groping is groping, and breast sucking is breast sucking. It's not "more" sexual because it's two women doing it. It's the same act.

Toplessness is rated differently between men and women because society treats them differently. But society doesn't treat breast sucking differently. It is not a lesbian sex act, it's just a sex act, and there's even more examples on danbooru of men doing it than women doing it.

The more I look at this, the more convinced I am that this isn't an on/off situation. I think sometimes it can feel mild enough to be Q, and that doesn't have anything to do with the gender of who's doing it. It's not more explicit just because the subjects are all women. Some examples just feel more explicit than others.

blindVigil said:

I'm seriously lost as how hetero and yuri have any relevance to this topic. Fingering is fingering regardless of being a man and a woman or two women. Kissing is kissing, groping is groping, and breast sucking is breast sucking. It's not "more" sexual because it's two women doing it. It's the same act.

Toplessness is rated differently between men and women because society treats them differently. But society doesn't treat breast sucking differently. It is not a lesbian sex act, it's just a sex act, and there's even more examples on danbooru of men doing it than women doing it.

The more I look at this, the more convinced I am that this isn't an on/off situation. I think sometimes it can feel mild enough to be Q, and that doesn't have anything to do with the gender of who's doing it. It's not more explicit just because the subjects are all women. Some examples just feel more explicit than others.

I only mentioned that because of it being the primary example being discussed. That aside, I agree that there's situations where it can be mild enough for Q (more motorboating style), but it's still a sex act.

I think everyone is overthinking it.
Regarding breast sucking (although it can apply on many other things) - it played for laughs (post #1457005), depicted in a motherly way (post #2838189, post #375060), or is otherwise featured in content without an apparent sexual tension? Then it's Q (or even S depending on the context and depiction).
Is it being done in order to stimulate the partner, or is otherwise featured in content with sexual tension? Then it's E.
post #7963905 is E, there is no doubt about it. It's easy to surmise the context of the picture too (although I would be curious to know what alternate interpretations one could come up with).
I haven't read the entire thread, but I would suggest making a sexual act tag if sex isn't an option.