Should character wikis be cleared out/trimmed down of the "typical tags" describing their appearance?

I decided to look at the wikis of characters from certain copyrights to analyze and compare their format:

• Provence (Arknights character wiki; no "tag dump" checklist)

• Shenhe (Genshin Impact character wiki; no "tag dump" checklist, which was removed earlier)

• Ayaka character wiki (Genshin Impact character wiki; has "tag dump" checklist)

• Acheron character wiki (Honkai: Star Rail character wiki; no "tag dump" checklist)

• Saori character wiki (Blue Archive character wiki; has "tag dump" checklist)

Bremerton character wiki (Blue Avenue character wiki; not exactly a "tag dump" checklist, but needs to be trimmed down)

Mori Calliope's first costume character wiki (Hololive character wiki)

So apparently, these "tag dump" checklists are pretty common among high profile copyrights, though Star Rail surprisingly has very few "tag dump" wikis, if any.

Jerr said:

So apparently, these "tag dump" checklists are pretty common among high profile copyrights, though Star Rail surprisingly has very few "tag dump" wikis, if any.

Some Star Rail character used to have tag dump including that Archero, but Zapdos and few good users already removed it's.

If you read history of some Umamusume characters, you will also found they used to have long page of wiki, with tags ,history and profile dump.

High profile copyright, have more fans, so it's make sense some users will write tags dump for their favorite character, meanwhile the low copyright only written by users who want to clarified who those character are.

KagayakuShiningGate said:

By the way, evazion, could we have some examples of what'd you consider good examples of character wikis vs half-way decent ones vs bad ones for reference?

I think a good character wiki page should have a brief summary describing who they are and where they came from. Then you describe their distinctive features for the ease of tagging (and for it to pop up in suggested tags when doing the upload). And finally certain quirk/trivia about why the character is often portrayed in a specific way by the artist (such as lore connection or memes, etc.).

An acceptable one would be a placeholder that says smth like "(character) is a character from (copyright)". Since many of these characters have little to no story about them, especially OCs.

A bad one would be a page that literally full of needless bloat information about the character, like a summary of their lore that's not important to their characterization, or the reception of the character, etc.

TrueKringe said:

I think a good character wiki page should have a brief summary describing who they are and where they came from. Then you describe their distinctive features for the ease of tagging (and for it to pop up in suggested tags when doing the upload). And finally certain quirk/trivia about why the character is often portrayed in a specific way by the artist (such as lore connection or memes, etc.).

Tags linked in wikis no longer show up in the related tag list.

So, it seems like the general consensus among most users (both here and on the Discord) is that while they don't support the outright nuking of the appearance description for the character, trimming down/simplifying the "Typical tag dump"-style into a simple, short description is fair game.

Example with Venti's wiki.

Initially, it was shown like this:

This looks like a flood of every single taggable thing the character has, which looks pretty bad.

Later, I changed it to this:

This one cuts down on the long and drawn out taglist and simplifies it to just describing the basic tags of their appearance.

Jerr said:

So, it seems like the general consensus among most users (both here and on the Discord) is that while they don't support the outright nuking of the appearance description for the character, trimming down/simplifying the "Typical tag dump"-style into a simple, short description is fair game.

Example with Venti's wiki.

Initially, it was shown like this:

Show

For Reference: post #4146952

• Hair: short hair with long locks, twin braids, bangs, black hair, blue hair, aqua hair, gradient hair
• Eyes: aqua eyes, blue eyes, green eyes
• Body: androgynous, chest tattoo, leg tattoo
• Clothing: white shirt, juliet sleeves, frilled sleeves, corset, brooch, collared cape, green cape, green shorts, pantyhose, white legwear, loafers, brown footwear
• Archon Outfit: official alternate costume, crop top, hooded capelet, gold trim, white shorts, bridal gauntlets, elbow gloves, white gloves, single thighhigh, toeless legwear, barefoot, feathered wings, white wings
• Accessories: beret, green hat, hat flower, hair flower, white flower
• Items: vision (genshin impact), lyre, bow (weapon)
• Actions: holding instrument, playing instrument

This looks like a flood of every single taggable thing the character has, which looks pretty bad.

Later, I changed it to this:

Show

Venti has short black hair with twin braids.

His main attire consists of a green-colored beret on his head, and wears a green cape and corset over a white shirt on his upper body, while his lower half consists of green shorts over white pantyhose and black loafers.

An official alternate costume he wore as the Anemo Archon consists of a very revealing midriff-exposing crop top and a hooded capelet. He also wears elbow-length bridal gauntlets, along with short shorts and a single thighhigh. The outfit is overall predominantly white. He also has white feathered wings.

This one cuts down on the long and drawn out taglist and simplifies it to just describing the basic tags of their appearance.

Looks a lot better to me, just some basic traits that specify specific parts that are important to tag.

I strongly prefer the first version. I think the second one is much worse.

Jerr said:

So, it seems like the general consensus among most users (both here and on the Discord) is that while they don't support the outright nuking of the appearance description for the character, trimming down/simplifying the "Typical tag dump"-style into a simple, short description is fair game.

Example with Venti's wiki.

Initially, it was shown like this:

Show

For Reference: post #4146952

• Hair: short hair with long locks, twin braids, bangs, black hair, blue hair, aqua hair, gradient hair
• Eyes: aqua eyes, blue eyes, green eyes
• Body: androgynous, chest tattoo, leg tattoo
• Clothing: white shirt, juliet sleeves, frilled sleeves, corset, brooch, collared cape, green cape, green shorts, pantyhose, white legwear, loafers, brown footwear
• Archon Outfit: official alternate costume, crop top, hooded capelet, gold trim, white shorts, bridal gauntlets, elbow gloves, white gloves, single thighhigh, toeless legwear, barefoot, feathered wings, white wings
• Accessories: beret, green hat, hat flower, hair flower, white flower
• Items: vision (genshin impact), lyre, bow (weapon)
• Actions: holding instrument, playing instrument

This looks like a flood of every single taggable thing the character has, which looks pretty bad.

Later, I changed it to this:

Show

Venti has short black hair with twin braids.

His main attire consists of a green-colored beret on his head, and wears a green cape and corset over a white shirt on his upper body, while his lower half consists of green shorts over white pantyhose and black loafers.

An official alternate costume he wore as the Anemo Archon consists of a very revealing midriff-exposing crop top and a hooded capelet. He also wears elbow-length bridal gauntlets, along with short shorts and a single thighhigh. The outfit is overall predominantly white. He also has white feathered wings.

This one cuts down on the long and drawn out taglist and simplifies it to just describing the basic tags of their appearance.

I've always found the first format an absolute eyesore and completely useless both for learning about the character and for tagging back when wiki tags showed up on the related tags.

Jerr said:

So, it seems like the general consensus among most users (both here and on the Discord) is that while they don't support the outright nuking of the appearance description for the character, trimming down/simplifying the "Typical tag dump"-style into a simple, short description is fair game.

Example with Venti's wiki.

Initially, it was shown like this:

Show

For Reference: post #4146952

• Hair: short hair with long locks, twin braids, bangs, black hair, blue hair, aqua hair, gradient hair
• Eyes: aqua eyes, blue eyes, green eyes
• Body: androgynous, chest tattoo, leg tattoo
• Clothing: white shirt, juliet sleeves, frilled sleeves, corset, brooch, collared cape, green cape, green shorts, pantyhose, white legwear, loafers, brown footwear
• Archon Outfit: official alternate costume, crop top, hooded capelet, gold trim, white shorts, bridal gauntlets, elbow gloves, white gloves, single thighhigh, toeless legwear, barefoot, feathered wings, white wings
• Accessories: beret, green hat, hat flower, hair flower, white flower
• Items: vision (genshin impact), lyre, bow (weapon)
• Actions: holding instrument, playing instrument

This looks like a flood of every single taggable thing the character has, which looks pretty bad.

Later, I changed it to this:

Show

Venti has short black hair with twin braids.

His main attire consists of a green-colored beret on his head, and wears a green cape and corset over a white shirt on his upper body, while his lower half consists of green shorts over white pantyhose and black loafers.

An official alternate costume he wore as the Anemo Archon consists of a very revealing midriff-exposing crop top and a hooded capelet. He also wears elbow-length bridal gauntlets, along with short shorts and a single thighhigh. The outfit is overall predominantly white. He also has white feathered wings.

This one cuts down on the long and drawn out taglist and simplifies it to just describing the basic tags of their appearance.

I think the third paragraph could be removed and reworked to use in the actual costume's wiki and the second paragraph could still be shortened to only mention less common tags, but it looks way better.

Samsara_Kama said:

I think the third paragraph could be removed and reworked to use in the actual costume's wiki and the second paragraph could still be shortened to only mention less common tags, but it looks way better.

+1, there no need to put paragraph about alternative costume in character main wiki if they have own tags.

+1 to the trimmed character wiki sample, that looks way cleaner to read. No need to flood a wiki page with tags especially when a lot of artists take creative liberties with things like colours and outfits.

A natural-language character description on the wiki is great, sure.

But having a wiki where you just pick-and-choose certain tags for a character is not helpful to taggers.

That is why I like the idea of a expandable list on the bottom of the wiki page for tags as an extra addition.

Using an expandable list means the tag wall is unobtrusive to regular viewers, but a helpful resource for taggers; so long as it's clearly labelled, there is absolutely no drawback from such a feature.

When you're tagging an image and you can't quite recall what certain minute details are called (stuff like a heart o-ring, industrial piercings, tsumami kanzashi, and so on), it's a great resource to fall back on, saving time and improving tagging accuracy.

That is why I created the xiezhi guan tag and added it to Yanfei's Wiki - because it's such a unique headwear that was appearing as a headwear request. Having this resource clearly visible helps the tag grow organically, and makes the archive more accurate overall. Not only that, but it helps circumvent creation of duplicative tags on clothing descriptors.

@WeakestResUser, it's true that artists take creative liberties with colors and outfits, that's what artistic liscense tags are there for.

@Jerr I know that mistagged off-shoulder sweaters are an annoyance to you, but if characters like Belfast's "Shopping with the Head Maid" outfit had such a feature in her wikia, the tag's accuracy rate would be higher.

If mistagging posts and tagme is a point of contention, having an unobtrusive tagging guide will help reduce that.

And if people make mistakes - as we often do - in a wiki guide, you correct them - you tell them what they did wrong in a professional manner, you fix the mistake, and you move on. People are people.

And, at the end of the day, the sole purpose of a Wiki page is to provide information.

@Ourobouro said:

But having a wiki where you just pick-and-choose certain tags for a character is not helpful to taggers.

That is why I like the idea of a expandable list on the bottom of the wiki page for tags as an extra addition.

Using an expandable list means the tag wall is unobtrusive to regular viewers, but a helpful resource for taggers; so long as it's clearly labelled, there is absolutely no drawback from such a feature.

Reread what Evazion said in forum #281829: "Wikis should have a simple written description of what the character looks like. These "Typical tags" sections that just list a bunch of tags should be converted to written descriptions or removed."

Ourobouro said:

When you're tagging an image and you can't quite recall what certain minute details are called (stuff like a heart o-ring, industrial piercings, tsumami kanzashi, and so on), it's a great resource to fall back on, saving time and improving tagging accuracy.

That is why I created the xiezhi guan tag and added it to Yanfei's Wiki - because it's such a unique headwear that was appearing as a headwear request. Having this resource clearly visible helps the tag grow organically, and makes the archive more accurate overall. Not only that, but it helps circumvent creation of duplicative tags on clothing descriptors.

If a character has a rare/uncommon tag, then it should be indicated in their wiki. However, it can still be done via a simple short summary describing their appearance rather than a "Tagging Guide". A short summary in this (with primarly the basic tags in a short summary) gets the job done.

Ourobouro said:

Jerr I know that mistagged off-shoulder sweaters are an annoyance to you, but if characters like Belfast's "Shopping with the Head Maid" outfit had such a feature in her wikia, the tag's accuracy rate would be higher.

If mistagging posts and tagme is a point of contention, having an unobtrusive tagging guide will help reduce that.

Why use a tagging guide when a simple short summary of their appearance would do? I can write a short summary for the wiki of Belfast's Shopping with the Head Maid outfit and it still gets to the point of describing her appearance without the need for a "Tagging Guide" feature.

I feel like I want to raise the issue with regards to how we treat additional info in charwikis, especially since Evazion had been making changes to shipgirl ones for the past few days.

To give an idea of the changes he's put forward, here are two examples (Massachusetts and Cavalla). The revision includes consolidating the "appearance" and "skins/costumes" section into a single "appearance" section with the image embeds, but it also means that the tag descriptives end up being placed on the lead section. TBH I'm fine with that, since that way, we can trim it down to the format of "x is portrayed with... x's default outfit consists of... etc." and call it a day.

The major gripe I have is that the additional info that I consider as equally important (who made the base art and who voices them) got moved to the bottom of the lead instead of its original place next to the header. Yet another irritant is that he de-italicized the copyright name for each edit. For me, it infringes on the standardization work that I've put for the longest time. I understand where he's going with regarding readability:

Wikis should have a simple written description of what the character looks like. These "Typical tags" sections that just list a bunch of tags should be converted to written descriptions or removed.

But IMHO his changes made the lead segment look cluttered while the purpose of me placing them in an "appearance" section is to make it less intimidating to read and follow through (take it from someone who's had prior Wikipedia experience), especially when you're presented with characters with so many official alternate costumes that doing image embed on them would make it worse (like what happened with Laffey's). I've been going over the standardization long before TrueKringe here gave out the tl;dr:

I think a good character wiki page should have a brief summary describing who they are and where they came from. Then you describe their distinctive features for the ease of tagging (and for it to pop up in suggested tags when doing the upload). And finally certain quirk/trivia about why the character is often portrayed in a specific way by the artist (such as lore connection or memes, etc.).

And a quick look at the ones I've done would say that I've fulfilled what is needed, although not everyone here agrees on what course would that take, and which format to use. The recent edits (by the site admin himself, no less) were a bit of a challenge. It's like throwing a middle finger at these efforts to make wikis worth reading as per Evaz's words on page one:

Wikis should be written for regular users, not just for uploaders. The vast majority of users are not uploaders or taggers. Wikis should be written for regular people trying to learn more about who a character is, not for people who only want a list of tags to copy for their uploads.

So here's my compromise: I'll partially adopt evazion's current format (like what I just did with Bell and Pittsburgh) as an effort to strike a middle ground between two conflicting ideas on how these wikis should be formatted, but the info on original creator and seiyuu must stay on top, that part is non-negotiable. Honestly, I've spent much effort in making them as orderly as possible and I'll be damned if the revisions end up becoming counter-intuitive to our intentions, not to mention I'm so tired of bending to others to accommodate their ideas (like Zapdos' insistence of omitting oshimarks on vtuber wikis, which I only reluctantly accepted to avoid conflict). If we can keep the tags selection to such an extent like what I've done, then it should be good from here.

As always, I leave the floor open from here for opinions/words on the matter/suggestions.

I don't think the original designer and VA are important enough to need to be at the top of the page. Wiki pages are supposed to be useful for tagging. Who originally created the design and who voices the character (which could even be multiple people depending on circumstances) are relevant to tagging in like 1% of cases. If it's not voice actor connection or some other VA joke, then it's not useful information.

Nice to have, but it doesn't need to be at the top.

Agreed, the information definitely should be in the wiki, but it's absolutely non-essential when it comes to Danbooru wikis. When adding VAs, I personally always put it at the end, because it's really only used for voice actor connection-type tagging.

The most important information for us should be at the start of the wiki. Sorry, but if I open a wiki and have to glance over a few paragraphs of irrelevant info about the VA or original designer before I actually get to what I need to tag a post, I'm just going to nuke that info.

Why insist on official artists and VAs being put on top of the page when it's trivia? That information should be relegated to the bottom of the page. It isn't of much significance to viewers, nor is it useful to taggers -- when I posts images from media I don't consume, the only resource I need out of the character wiki is usually just the character's gender and information/visuals on their appearance, including any alternate costumes. This lets me tag any 'artistic license' tags if need be. Just leave it at the bottom. It makes it easier for uploaders and people browsing for images. :Awoo:

Well, I guess just having a few essential tag to describe the basic features of the characters would be suffice. See Ellen Joe wiki for example

VA and designer, on the other hand, are not as important, tho they may be useful for doing VA/artist connection or smth. So it can just be placed at the bottom.