male_with_breasts

male with breasts is currently being used in a bizarre way that breaks tagging for the posts it's used on.
The current rule, written in blood sweat and tears, is that if a character's canonical gender is different from how they are portrayed in a post, that specific portrayal, not the canon, should be used in that post's tags.
But male with breasts is being used as a loophole; taggers have been using it for any character they personally interpret as a male, instead of newhalf.
Despite the male with breasts wiki explicitly saying "Use this tag when the character has no penis or testicles visible, otherwise it should be tagged as newhalf." over a third of the posts in male with breasts are tagged with penis, bulge, or erection.
Despite most of the posts in male with breasts being counter to both the established conventions of Danbooru, and the male with breasts wiki itself, most of these posts are heavily litigated and subject to many tag wars.
There are really 3 distinct types of post in male with breasts: Characters who look completely female but are canonically male, nonhuman characters who look androgynous but are canonically male, and transgender/newhalf depictions of characters that taggers think of as otoko no ko. I'll use an example for each one.

Namine Ritsu is a character who is canonically an otoko no ko, 150cm tall, and has missiles on his torso that look like breasts. If we were to tag every post in namine ritsu according to canon instead of what's actually depicted, male with breasts wouldn't even be applicable, since they're canonically missiles and not breasts. Secondly, every post in namine ritsu should be tagged miniboy since the character is only 150cm tall in canon. There's no reason for something post #7270944 should be in male focus. He can be a male in canon, and 1girl or 1other for tagging.

Angel Dust is a barely humanoid devil monster from some cartoon that's "canonically male" so a bunch of stuff like post #7131842 gets thrown in there. Weird, nonhuman, genderbending characters is exactly what 1other should be used for.

And the worst offender: Bridget (Guilty Gear) was subject to like an 80 page thread the conclusion of which was "tag according to what's visible in the image" and yet things like (nsfw) post #6719843 or post #7574859 still get incessantly tagged male with breasts. And it's not being added by random burner accounts, most of the people I see warring over this tag are builder+

I understand that people want to tag things according to canon (or their idea of canon) and I think should whenever possible. But we just have to accept that for certain characters that are gender nonconforming in some way, what's in the image has to take precedence.

The only good use case for male with breasts I can think of is (nsfw) post #7108321, post #4950722, or (nsfw) post #7157434, which depict masculine characters with breasts. All of the other stuff is either newhalf, 1girl, or 1other

One last thing: I'd like to humbly beg that we stay on topic and and not turn this into the Bridget (Guilty Gear) gender thread again.

If it's obvious that it's breasts and it's not just ambiguous clothing folds I'd say just move those posts to 1girl/futanari unless the face is actually masculine. It's ridiculous that something like post #7345723 or post #6708223 is currently under 1boy.

nonamethanks said:

If it's obvious that it's breasts and it's not just ambiguous clothing folds I'd say just move those posts to 1girl/futanari unless the face is actually masculine. It's ridiculous that something like post #7345723 or post #6708223 is currently under 1boy.

The only reason I didn't just start moving posts manually is because most of the most egregious examples have already been the subject of extensive tag warring and my edits would almost certainly get reverted near-instantly.

Following up on my previous post, I made a set of every post in male with breasts. Here are my suggestions:

• favgroup #32911 has posts that are 1other
• favgroup #32910 has posts that are just 1girl.
• favgroup #32909 has posts that are 1girl + futanari/newhalf.
• favgroup #32912 has posts that should remain male with breasts.
• favgroup #32914 has posts I'm undecided about
• favgroup #32948 has posts with pectorals + manboobs.

gfz said:

Secondly, every post in namine ritsu should be tagged miniboy since the character is only 150cm tall in canon.

What. Unless there's some sarcasm I'm missing, 150 cm is a meter and a half, or 4 feet 11 inches in freedom units. That would only count as miniboy in Apokolips.

BaiserLaVerite said:

What. Unless there's some sarcasm I'm missing, 150 cm is a meter and a half, or 4 feet 11 inches in freedom units. That would only count as miniboy in Apokolips.

I misread that as mm, oops.

I would not consider Angel Dust male with breasts or 1other, I would tag half of his art crossdressing but its just chest fluff and doesn't look like defined breasts.

I'm all for tagging the UTAU boy as 1girl though when its not clear the breasts are fake. Same with most characters listed. Male_woth_breasts is a silly tag and most is genderswap art.

gfz said:

• favgroup #32910 has posts that are just 1girl.

There are a lot of Takanashi Kotori posts in that group, which are depictions Takanashi Souta crossdressing based upon what was shown in the series Working!!. The name is from the alias he used while crossdressing.

Personally I think that if the artist states "this is a male character and I drew him with breasts" (e.g.: post #6241674) then the tag should be used. It's its own thing separate from futanari despite the similarities, just like how cuntboy is the same thing but for vagina instead of breasts. And from what I understand, that's the intended purpose for the tag.

The images you used as examples where the tag applies (excluding the saruman one) are essentially just pectorals. If we're going to repurpose the tag into pectorals then I think it should at the very least be aliased.

Zundamonium said:

Personally I think that if the artist states "this is a male character and I drew him with breasts" (e.g.: post #6241674) then the tag should be used.

This is a topic that has been debated many many times already, I don't think we need to discuss it again.

Zundamonium said:

The images you used as examples where the tag applies (excluding the saruman one) are essentially just pectorals. If we're going to repurpose the tag into pectorals then I think it should at the very least be aliased.

I could see it for some of them, but post #7325543, post #4950722, and post #408636 are definitely not pectorals.

GreyOmega said:

There are a lot of Takanashi Kotori posts in that group, which are depictions Takanashi Souta crossdressing based upon what was shown in the series Working!!. The name is from the alias he used while crossdressing.

Should those be breast padding then?

Not not 100% post #7401206 - it's a newhalf drawing (checked paid reward version) but you can't tell because of the censorship.
I'm leaving off the newhalf tag for now.

gfz said:

Should those be breast padding then?

Probably. Should also note that Yuki is also a crossdressing character.

post #6777882 (and the this original character in general) is an oddity, as based on the artist's comments the character is very specifically a personification of a male goat, as they cite the fact that some male goats have udders and some of those actually have functioning udders that produce milk. Here is a website that talks about those kinds of goats, apparently occurs most often in lines known for producing a lot of milk.

Thank you for your input! takanashi kotori and yuki (princess connect!) have been updated to breast padding.

GreyOmega said:

post #6777882 (and the this original character in general) is an oddity, as based on the artist's comments the character is very specifically a personification of a male goat, as they cite the fact that some male goats have udders and some of those actually have functioning udders that produce milk. Here is a website that talks about those kinds of goats, apparently occurs most often in lines known for producing a lot of milk.

This reminds me of the debate on post #7232759. Artists should be free to make their canon whatever they want, but our tags shouldn't necessarily follow it.

gfz said:

Thank you for your input! takanashi kotori and yuki (princess connect)! have been updated to breast padding.

This reminds me of the debate on post #7232759. Artists should be free to make their canon whatever they want, but our tags shouldn't necessarily follow it.

Can choose to ignore canon if you want, but the artist has very clearly done other drawings of the character with only male genitals, tagged it with male specific tags, referenced them being male in comment explicitly referencing what they're based on, and predominantly only draws crossdressing male characters. If that's not enough, then I don't see why that line of being serialized in an official publication even matters then.

GreyOmega said:

Can choose to ignore canon if you want, but the artist has very clearly done other drawings of the character with only male genitals, tagged it with male specific tags, referenced them being male in comment explicitly referencing what they're based on, and predominantly only draws crossdressing male characters. If that's not enough, then I don't see why that line of being serialized in an official publication even matters then.

And those posts should be tagged according to what is shown in the image. My point is that tagging based on canon should always be done except in the case where tagging according to canon breaks the rules of our existing tags. Suppose the creator of (nsfw) post #7684857 decided that this OC is male. Would you say we should tag it as male focus then? At the end of the day, it's more important to have a coherent tag system than it is to respect canon or the artist's intent.

gfz said:

And those posts should be tagged according to what is shown in the image. My point is that tagging based on canon should always be done except in the case where tagging according to canon breaks the rules of our existing tags. Suppose the creator of (nsfw) post #7684857 decided that this OC is male. Would you say we should tag it as male focus then? At the end of the day, it's more important to have a coherent tag system than it is to respect canon or the artist's intent.

We don't usually tag cuntboy male_focus, and I think those would be mistags same as with how you don't use yuri on futanari. The only characters in the male_with_breasts tag who are consistently being tagged with male focus are Namine Ritsu and Dragona Joestar with a side helping of Bridget and some OCs. I personally don't think any of them should be there with the exception of some of Dragona as I'm not sure if all of those are actually breasts, some look more like huge_pectorals? Following the futanari tagging it would be 1boy but they wouldn't get any of the male-focused tags correct? Or am I off the mark?

zetsubousensei said:

We don't usually tag cuntboy male_focus, and I think those would be mistags same as with how you don't use yuri on futanari. The only characters in the male_with_breasts tag who are consistently being tagged with male focus are Namine Ritsu and Dragona Joestar with a side helping of Bridget and some OCs. I personally don't think any of them should be there with the exception of some of Dragona as I'm not sure if all of those are actually breasts, some look more like huge_pectorals? Following the futanari tagging it would be 1boy but they wouldn't get any of the male-focused tags correct? Or am I off the mark?

...We don't? Posts with cuntboy and without women are overwhelmingly tagged male focus (244 with, 16 without).

Male tagging is always going to be terribly messy mainly because of otoko no ko being consistently allowed to be an exception to tag what you see. Also to complicate this more we already had a male with breasts tag that long predates this one. Manboobs.

zetsubousensei said:

We don't usually tag cuntboy male_focus, and I think those would be mistags same as with how you don't use yuri on futanari. The only characters in the male_with_breasts tag who are consistently being tagged with male focus are Namine Ritsu and Dragona Joestar with a side helping of Bridget and some OCs. I personally don't think any of them should be there with the exception of some of Dragona as I'm not sure if all of those are actually breasts, some look more like huge_pectorals? Following the futanari tagging it would be 1boy but they wouldn't get any of the male-focused tags correct? Or am I off the mark?

There are more cuntboy images tagged male focus then there aren't. Edit: Sniped

gfz said:

...We don't? Posts with cuntboy and without women are overwhelmingly tagged male focus (244 with, 16 without).

I didn't think we did? Last I checked it was inconsistent but not overwhelmingly male_focus? That doesn't seem right but there's no wiki rule. I still maintain male_with_breasts and cuntboy either should be 1other or 1boy but not have male_focus.

zetsubousensei said:

I didn't think we did? Last I checked it was inconsistent but not overwhelmingly male_focus? That doesn't seem right but there's no wiki rule. I still maintain male_with_breasts and cuntboy either should be 1other or 1boy but not have male_focus.

If we keep in mind it's used as a blacklist tag it makes more sense, the average person who would blacklist male focus probably doesn't want to see post #7050653 in their searches and they would have to add a second tag they probably aren't familiar with to their blacklist.