Deprecate implied_halo

War6t2 said:

BUR #25275 has been rejected.

mass update spiked_halo (blue_archive or guilty_gear or arknights) -> nontraditional_halo
mass update mechanical_halo blue_archive -> nontraditional_halo
create implication rectangular_halo -> nontraditional_halo
create implication triangle_halo -> nontraditional_halo
create implication cruciform_halo -> nontraditional_halo
create implication winged_halo -> nontraditional_halo
mass update gear_halo -> nontraditional_halo
create implication star_halo -> nontraditional_halo

Collecting all "animefied" halos.

I know fuck all about these franchises so open to any suggestions to better filter this. I tried checking the most used *_halo tags but they are just reffering to color so copyright will have to do.

Open to any suggestions.

You cant do this with a BUR like that because you'll catch posts like post #2715792

I would love a way to filter for real halos though and nontraditional_halo is the best suggestion there.

Yeah, that's not even remotely going to work. BA features countless examples of simple, standard circular halos, and AK barely features any outstanding halo designs.

zetsubousensei said:

I would love a way to filter for real halos though and nontraditional_halo is the best suggestion there.

Ditto

zetsubousensei said:

I still maintain you are trying to cram several ideas into one tag and it would be better served as a pool.

Several different things that kinda might call to mind a halo is not a good clear idea for a tag. I'm a broken record but symbolism + halo is still what I stand with.

halo symbolism doesn't work because it includes "concrete" halos used for symbolic purposes posts/6921862 4776831. Neither does halo behind head because of the "halo is not a halo" reason mentioned in forum #273637. The above bur isn't actually about this tag but just to collect those halos for easier searching for traditional ones. In case I expressed myself poorly I'm thinking of the trope of "looks like halo/devil horns/angel wings/etc without concretely having those traits" like https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fvfc8e8v9lxa51.jpg. I've spent the last few days looking at various synonyms for "hinting at shit without showing it directly" on merrian webster.

You know that feeling when you're so focused on something your brain blocks out the simple easy solution that someone else then points out 5 seconds after hearing about the problem? That's how I feel right now trying to find a name for this and why I desperately other people will discuss this and someone will suggest the seemingly obvious thing I missed.

For now, the list of ideas is (with the same applying to devil horns and angel wings):

zetsubousensei said:

You cant do this with a BUR like that because you'll catch posts like post #2715792

I would love a way to filter for real halos though and nontraditional_halo is the best suggestion there.

blindVigil said:

Yeah, that's not even remotely going to work. BA features countless examples of simple, standard circular halos, and AK barely features any outstanding halo designs.

Ditto

My bad on that, I saw those mentioned and doing a quick glance they had strange halos. Other than blue archive how else would people suggest filtering for this?

Bur changed to the new name for now.
Edit added some more filtering.

War6t2 said:
Bur changed to the new name for now.
Edit added some more filtering.

You probably can't and it would need to manually be done with a favgroup.

The Arknights line doesn't even return any results now, and BA wasn't changed at all. Mass updating whole copyrights like this just is not feasible. BA has dozens of NPCs with simple halos and there's no telling how many examples there are of an artist simplifying a named character's halo and disqualifying them from a "nontraditional" tag.

blindVigil said:

The Arknights line doesn't even return any results now, and BA wasn't changed at all. Mass updating whole copyrights like this just is not feasible. BA has dozens of NPCs with simple halos and there's no telling how many examples there are of an artist simplifying a named character's halo and disqualifying them from a "nontraditional" tag.

Aight, changed to halo type specific tags now.

War6t2 said:

Allusive halo
Connoted halo
Evoked halo
Halo effect - also the name of a physiological phenomena
Illusory halo
Implicit halo
Implied halo - deprecated per above
Insinuated halo
Looks like halo
Looks like having halo
Symbolic halo - might be confused with concrete halos used for symbolism

Surely if implied_halo was a bad tag implicit_halo will be fine right?

That aside, I'm actually not entirely sure I see the value is in a hypothetical nontraditional halo tag. Halo complexity is a bit of a sliding scale anyway, and this just seems like a great way to get arguments on whether a melting halo is simple/traditional "enough" or not.

岩戸鈴芽 said:

Surely if implied_halo was a bad tag implicit_halo will be fine right?

That aside, I'm actually not entirely sure I see the value is in a hypothetical nontraditional halo tag. Halo complexity is a bit of a sliding scale anyway, and this just seems like a great way to get arguments on whether a melting halo is simple/traditional "enough" or not.

I don't necessarily agree with the deprecation or think it would have happened with a proper wiki being there at the time either. Though none of the names seem significantly better or worse than the original one to me, I'm listing them to hear opinions and keep track.

Melted halos from what I can see are mostly variations on the traditional "simple circle" halo design. See post #7428756 for a melted and normal halo vs the over designed anime ones that this tag should cover. It's about complicated halos but people liked this name. It's the same reason I didn't put any color tags in the implication because a green circle would still be a circle.

War6t2 said:

I don't necessarily agree with the deprecation or think it would have happened with a proper wiki being there at the time either.

I think a deprecation would've happened even if a wiki was there. A halo is there or it isn't, there's nothing "implied" about it that isn't covered by one of our dozens of lighting tags, as others have already explained. Also, who the hell would even want to search "implied halo" as opposed to said lighting tags? Certainly not the people trying to see halos, that's for sure. Please quit trying to make it a thing, it's not going to be a thing.

Now, on the subject of halos...I'm personally not against a nontraditional halo tag existing, but then we'd first have to nail down what a traditional halo even is. I presume things like the halo in post #7415065 would be one such, but what about the aforementioned melting halo? Or things like sun halo or moon halo I remember seeing from a while back?

Knowledge_Seeker said:

Now, on the subject of halos...I'm personally not against a nontraditional halo tag existing, but then we'd first have to nail down what a traditional halo even is. I presume things like the halo in post #7415065 would be one such, but what about the aforementioned melting halo?

I think anything that isn't a complete, standard circular halo of light/metal (like gold) should be considered "non-traditional". Melting, mechanical, broken, whatever, if it's not a simple, complete circle, then it's not traditional.

Though a question we may want to ask is if we should instead have a traditional halo tag, or both tags.

Also a reminder that a lot of this has been discussed previously, it just didn't go anywhere.

Or things like sun halo or moon halo I remember seeing from a while back?

Those are actually something entirely unrelated.

blindVigil said:

I think anything that isn't a complete, standard circular halo of light/metal (like gold) should be considered "non-traditional". Melting, mechanical, broken, whatever, if it's not a simple, complete circle, then it's not traditional.

Though a question we may want to ask is if we should instead have a traditional halo tag, or both tags.

I'd agree with that definition, as that is exactly what I'd expect to see were I able to search for typical halos as opposed to the ones typically accompanying Blue Archive characters (and in fact, the kind I usually upload for when I need a halo tag). I would be willing to object on differing colors (like pink) or a halo that would otherwise qualify being broken disqualifying a post from being considered a "traditional" halo personally, but that's all the leeway I'd give. Things like triangle halo and anything more complex than mere color should very much be considered nontraditional.

Now as for if we'd preferred traditional halo over nontraditional halo...What's the ratio between what we'd consider traditional halos and any other kind? I can see this turning into a traditional nun situation where it became nigh impossible to search for the actual traditional version you'd expect to see outside of the anime space before we created the tag for it, but I haven't been keeping track of the influx of halo posts to really say. Whichever one is the overwhelming majority (assuming that's the case) should determine which tag is preferred. Although if they're fairly tied, we could probably go ahead and do both. As someone who finds a good angel post every now and then, I'd be interested in a traditional halo tag if we go down this route.

Also a reminder that a lot of this has been discussed previously, it just didn't go anywhere.

Naturally. Hopefully, this discussion should help us get closer to a solution. Although since we've pretty much changed topics from the "implied halo" nonsense this thread originally set out to resolve, would it be best to move this to its own topic? I think we'd stand a better shot at getting this resolved if we moved this to a thread about just that.

Those are actually something entirely unrelated.

Then why are they called halos? That's just kinda confusing. Not that I have any good solutions for that, but I do admit to finding their names rather strange. But ah well, just thought I'd bring those up just in case.

For the benefit of anyone dropping into this topic late, BUR #25275:

• originally proposed mass updating all characters with halos from Arknights/Blue Archive/Guilty Gear to nontraditional halo
• got downvoted by several people because those mass updates would catch plenty of traditional halos
• then got edited to its current form, a set of implications from "subset" halo tags to nontraditional halo

I undid my downvote but I don't know if others will.
IMO, the BUR should be remade in a different topic because its votes fail to represent people's opinion of what it's currently proposing, and it should really never have been in this only semi-related topic in the first place.

In the future, try not to totally change the content of BURs like that. It's confusing at best, and at worst might be perceived as deliberately deceptive or malicious.

7HS said:

For the benefit of anyone dropping into this topic late, BUR #25275:

• originally proposed mass updating all characters with halos from Arknights/Blue Archive/Guilty Gear to nontraditional halo
• got downvoted by several people because those mass updates would catch plenty of traditional halos
• then got edited to its current form, a set of implications from "subset" halo tags to nontraditional halo

I undid my downvote but I don't know if others will.
IMO, the BUR should be remade in a different topic because its votes fail to represent people's opinion of what it's currently proposing, and it should really never have been in this only semi-related topic in the first place.

In the future, try not to totally change the content of BURs like that. It's confusing at best, and at worst might be perceived as deliberately deceptive or malicious.

Thanks for chiming in and reminding me to meh it instead.

I like most of the BUR but there are some like "mechanical" that I'm unsure on since they retain what I would consider a typical shape though material-wise it is nontraditional.

Knowledge_Seeker said:

Now as for if we'd preferred traditional halo over nontraditional halo...What's the ratio between what we'd consider traditional halos and any other kind? I can see this turning into a traditional nun situation where it became nigh impossible to search for the actual traditional version you'd expect to see outside of the anime space before we created the tag for it, but I haven't been keeping track of the influx of halo posts to really say. Whichever one is the overwhelming majority (assuming that's the case) should determine which tag is preferred. Although if they're fairly tied, we could probably go ahead and do both. As someone who finds a good angel post every now and then, I'd be interested in a traditional halo tag if we go down this route.

In a perfect world we would have already had a grouping tag for atypical halos from the start, it really is hard to judge at this point. Realistically Blue Archive hype won't last forever and the "traditional" type will outlast it in the long run, but all it takes is another new series with a wacky halo to get popular and flood the searches.

I think usually when tagging you ask yourself "What is unique about this picture/object/clothes/ect?" With that in mind the exception "nontraditional" makes more sense as a separate tag, but I don't see harm in having both as subtags to the larger halo umbrella.

7HS said:

I undid my downvote but I don't know if others will.
IMO, the BUR should be remade in a different topic because its votes fail to represent people's opinion of what it's currently proposing, and it should really never have been in this only semi-related topic in the first place.

Frankly I don't understand why specific copyrights are still part of the BUR. Why are only BA mechanical halos being updated with nontraditional halo instead of just implicating mechanical halo itself? Something like this is no more traditional than Yuuka's halo. The three listed copyrights are not the only ones with spiked halos, why is it not just being implicated. What about the thirty other halo types we've made tags for?

Even if I disagree less with the current iteration of the request, it seems very half assed and I can't support a BUR that's just taking random shots in the dark.

7HS said:

For the benefit of anyone dropping into this topic late, BUR #25275:

• originally proposed mass updating all characters with halos from Arknights/Blue Archive/Guilty Gear to nontraditional halo
• got downvoted by several people because those mass updates would catch plenty of traditional halos
• then got edited to its current form, a set of implications from "subset" halo tags to nontraditional halo

I undid my downvote but I don't know if others will.
IMO, the BUR should be remade in a different topic because its votes fail to represent people's opinion of what it's currently proposing, and it should really never have been in this only semi-related topic in the first place.

In the future, try not to totally change the content of BURs like that. It's confusing at best, and at worst might be perceived as deliberately deceptive or malicious.

I didn't consider it could come across like that. It makes more sense if someone had an upvoted bur that they then changed completely, but who would fake getting down voted? I just changed it from feedback and to not have a bunch of failed burs cluttering the list of bulk update requests.

blindVigil said:

Frankly I don't understand why specific copyrights are still part of the BUR. Why are only BA mechanical halos being updated with nontraditional halo instead of just implicating mechanical halo itself? Something like this is no more traditional than Yuuka's halo. The three listed copyrights are not the only ones with spiked halos, why is it not just being implicated. What about the thirty other halo types we've made tags for?

Even if I disagree less with the current iteration of the request, it seems very half assed and I can't support a BUR that's just taking random shots in the dark.

Per the wiki

Fake_halo

Fake halo (like that of a costume), usually supported by a visible rod, as in this example: post #5745591

Mechanical_halo

A halo that floats above a character's head by mechanical or technological means. Sometimes equipped with lights.

Mechanical_halo has over 600 pages and also catches fake traditional halos like post #6430602. Whereas mechanical_halo blue_archive makes up 300+ of those pages and is actual scifi looking robotic halos (mostly from two characters, but even when those to are removed from the search the results are still robotic halos). So for now I've added mechanical_halo blue_archive to catch those 300+ pages without false positives. The tag would have to be added manually later. A fake traditional halo as part of an angel costume is still a traditional halo, a flying mechanical disk with lights inside it is not. That's why it's not implied.

I'm not too certain if those tags should be mutually exclusive

Same reason for spiked_halo.

BUR #25287 has been rejected.

Making significant change a seperate bur.

Per the wiki

Fake_halo

Fake halo (like that of a costume), usually supported by a visible rod, as in this example: post #5745591

Mechanical_halo

A halo that floats above a character's head by mechanical or technological means. Sometimes equipped with lights.

Mechanical_halo has over 600 pages and also catches fake traditional halos like post #6430602. Whereas mechanical_halo blue_archive makes up 300+ of those pages and is actual scifi looking robotic halos (mostly from two characters, but even when those to are removed from the search the results are still robotic halos). So for now I've filtered for that and some other nontraditional halos. The tag would have to be added manually later. A fake traditional halo as part of an angel costume is still a traditional halo, a flying mechanical disk with lights inside it is not. That's why it's not implied. Same reason for spiked_halo.

I'm not too certain if mechanical_halo and fake_halo should be mutually exclusive.

Imo the tag is to separate over designed or highly stylized anime halos from the traditional simple circle and/or glow behind head. Very simple spiked halos like post #5705733 post #7161344 are edge cases both because lines are sometimes used to draw light and I'm pretty sure there was some aspect of the "crown of thorns" Jesus wore that wound up bleeding into Abrahamic traditional halos from time to time. Something like post #5701374 however obviously is not. Color however means fuck all, post #900353 that's why it's not included.

This topic is a confusing mess, if I understood correctly, the reasoning behind nontraditional halo is to create a broad tag to tag posts like those that were under implied halo. I'd be in favor of a tag for traditional halo instead, if that's something people want to filter.

Samsara_Kama said:

This topic is a confusing mess, if I understood correctly, the reasoning behind nontraditional halo is to create a broad tag to tag posts like those that were under implied halo. I'd be in favor of a tag for traditional halo instead, if that's something people want to filter.

No nontraditional is completely separate from implied. I agree its a mess and agree with others that @war6t2 should reject these BURs and make them in a new thread called "grouping nontraditional halos" or "making a traditional halo" tag.

We can have a more clear discussion there.

The bulk update request #25287 (forum #277015) has been rejected by @War6t2.