About the in memoriam pool

pool #1318 says "When adding to the pool, also tag the seiyuu/director/artist to clarify who is being honored.". This doesn't make much sense to me, and in truth I didn't even notice that clause until another user pointed it out to me after I removed miura kentarou (mangaka) from a lot of berserk posts.
Should individuals really be tagged in pics like these? IMO it ends up polluting the searches, because there's nothing that references the mangaka in those pictures. miura_kentarou_(mangaka) has pictures of the mangaka himself, it doesn't make sense to me to add all images of Guts or Griffith that were posted after the mangaka's death to it. A perfect example is post #4533038, or post #4536922.

This is not like meta connections like seiyuu connection etc, where the connection is clearly in the image.

Also, when the picture clearly references the mangaka, like post #4533457, I have no issue with the person being tagged. My issue is specifically with pictures with absolutely zero connection having the tag.

It is a meta connection. Where the pictures references the works/roles the person tributed worked on/appeared in.

It is not all images of the work posted after the mangaka's death, just the ones made as a tribute. To use your own examples: post #4533038 and post #4536922 both reference the death of Miura in the commentary.

Mavado said:

It is not all images of the work posted after the mangaka's death, just the ones made as a tribute. To use your own examples: post #4533038 and post #4536922 both reference the death of Miura in the commentary.

And yet we end up with post #4536914 (https://danbooru.donmai.us/post_versions?search%5Bpost_id%5D=4536914) having the tag added, when the original pic was made two years ago. We don't know when any of these pics were made, the only reference is whether the artist posted it before or after Miura's death.

Unless there's a "rip <name>" somewhere in the picture it makes no sense to me to tag these posts with the person's name.

I don't think that makes much sense. If I'm searching for a character-tag, I want to see a specific character there, like the images of the mangaka that are already on danbooru. I don't search for it to see meta-stuff. You can also just add a comment to the image, so that everyone knows it. This also applies to other pools by now and I don't see why it shouldn't apply to this pool too.
This really isn't how tags should be used.

Guaro said:

I don't think that makes much sense. If I'm searching for a character-tag, I want to see a specific character there, like the images of the mangaka that are already on danbooru. I don't search for it to see meta-stuff. You can also just add a comment to the image, so that everyone knows it. This also applies to other pools by now and I don't see why it shouldn't apply to this pool too.
This really isn't how tags should be used.

That would make it virtually impossible to search for images paying tribute to a certain person, especially when you have multiple dead actors/artists being tributed for the same work or a dead actor/artist who worked on multiple works.

By that logic we would have to remove the actor tags for almost all the posts under Seiyuu Connection.

Mavado said:

By that logic we would have to remove the actor tags for almost all the posts under Seiyuu Connection.

It's a difference if I tag an image with a visible connection to something, as if I tag an image with no connection to the original mangaka with his name, because he's in the "in memorian" pool. Please read NNTs explanation about the seiyuu connection tag and why it does apply here. I'm also not here to discuss this tag, but only for the "in memorian" pool, as I stated how other pools are handeled.
post #4536914 has nothing to do with the mangaka, only the commentary stating that he died.
post #4535033 on the other hand makes way more sense, because the name is clearly written there. There won't be any further question on why the tag is used on that image.

That would make it virtually impossible to search for images paying tribute to a certain person, especially when you have multiple dead actors/artists being tributed for the same work or a dead actor/artist who worked on multiple works.

And it floods the tag with a lot of images that have only one connection to the tag, and that's the pool.

Except most of the pictures under seiyuu connection don't have that same visual connection you're asking for. It's mostly just cosplay and/or crossover pictures that are largely meaningless without the meta knowledge that both characters referenced were voiced by the same person.

While you can argue that post #4536914 doesn't belong in the pool since it was originally made 2 years ago and was only reposted as a tribute to Miura, it does have a visual connection to the mangaka: Berserk.

Mavado said:

While you can argue that post #4536914 doesn't belong in the pool since it was originally made 2 years ago and was only reposted as a tribute to Miura, it does have a visual connection to the mangaka: Berserk.

So does every single other picture under the copyright.

Note that seiyuu connection has clauses for its usage. You wouldn't use it for every single picture of characters voiced by a certain seiyuu.

Mavado said:

Except most of the pictures under seiyuu connection don't have that same visual connection you're asking for.

The visual connection is the used characters in the image etc. ಠ◡ಠ (And the clauses that state what a Seiyuu image is all about.) And in the end, you can always exclude that tag from your searches, if you only care about the character, which is mostly impossible for Miura.

The other thing is, that that would mean we have to tag every image of any other copyright made by some dead mangaka with that said mangaka, because the visual connection is that it was made by him. Just as NNT said and it makes clearly no sense for danbooru, because it would flood the tag with useless images.

Agree that miura kentarou (mangaka) should be used when there's at least a direct reference to him in the post itself or the mangaka himself is in the picture. Mentioning the mangaka in commentary shouldn't count for this.

But still should be a way for someone to see every piece of art made in memory of Miura, which is the search pool:1318 berserk. I've added it to the pool description so a user can select to see either posts with direct references to Miura or all posts made to homage Miura.

mongirlfan said:
But still should be a way for someone to see every piece of art made in memory of Miura, which is the search pool:1318 berserk. I've added it to the pool description so a user can select to see either posts with direct references to Miura or all posts made to homage Miura.

That only works because all current Berserk posts in the pool are tributes to Miura.

What about Dragon Ball, where we have tributes to Tsuru Hiromi, Ishizuka Unshou, Gouri Daisuke and a deleted post tributing Utsumi Kenji?

As far as I can see. post #2928037 is the only one that explicitly mentions the seiyuu in the picture, and thus the only one that would be allowed to keep the tag under the proposed changes. How would people find the posts paying their respects to a specific seiyuu in those cases?

Edit: Or Gundam, where we have tributes to Honda Chieko, Tsujitani Kouji, Syd Mead, Ichikawa Osamu, Charles Aznavour, Mizutani Yuuko, Gouri Daisuke (again) and Shiraishi Fuyumi? Again, what's your proposal to keep the images searchable without the seiyuu tags?

Maybe there could be a meta tag like tribute illustration or something along those lines? It’d be a more objective approach to tagging images where the artist intended to pay tribute to a deceased person, yet they didn’t draw the actual person. I’d understand if a lot of it had to rely on commentary and knowledge of recent events though. Compared to when the In Memoriam pool was first created (I don’t know when that was), there have been a significant number of passings since then, and there is a growing grey area of images depicting artists versus paying indirect tribute to them after their death.

As a side note, I was the one who created the Miura Kentarou (mangaka) tag a few days ago, and I populated it on the logic of how other artists like Kawakami Tomoko and Mizutani Yuuko had their chartags populated at the times of their deaths. I opted not to argue against the changes made afterwards since it’s not entirely wrong to use the tag for Miura Kentarou’s direct depiction, and I figured that the pool:1318 berserk search would suffice. Unfortunately, that’s not such an easy solution for artists who have been involved in multiple series, especially when it comes to seiyuu. Are you saying you’d have to do a pool:1318 series_1 series_2 series_3... search for someone like Kawakami Tomoko, who voiced numerous characters in numerous series? I think not.

I strongly believe an objective meta tag like tribute illustration would help get around this problem.

EDIT: I also wonder if a ‘tribute’ could also encompass other life events like weddings, births, or other significant events.

A tribute metatag only makes the pool redundant, it doesn't solve the issue on whether to tag the artists themselves.

As for Mavado's examples, it makes sense for post #2985252 or post #4206062 to be tagged with the person, because they directly reference her, but I really don't see how we can justify tagging post #2928034 with it. In this case there isn't even a commentary. Do we tag all pictures of a certain franchise/character released around the date of a related person's death with that person's chartag?

Bumping this thread because of the unfortunate passing of Toriyama Akira. I'm expecting this event to become a big one with a huge influx of art.

I agree with the notion that a character that isn't pictured in an image should not be tagged, just for the sake of consistency.

We are dealing with an subject that is hard to tag, but that still deserves to be grouped up in some form, and we solved that a while ago with Pools.

So to throw another idea on the pile: How about splitting up the "In Memoriam" pool into a separate pools that are all dedicated to a single person? This would solve the searchability issue without having to juggle around another meta tag.

GabrielWB said:

Bumping this thread because of the unfortunate passing of Toriyama Akira. I'm expecting this event to become a big one with a huge influx of art.

I agree with the notion that a character that isn't pictured in an image should not be tagged, just for the sake of consistency.

We are dealing with an subject that is hard to tag, but that still deserves to be grouped up in some form, and we solved that a while ago with Pools.

So to throw another idea on the pile: How about splitting up the "In Memoriam" pool into a separate pools that are all dedicated to a single person? This would solve the searchability issue without having to juggle around another meta tag.

Just opened forum #272395 at the same time as you posted this, lmao.

Now given that we're bringing up the definition of this pool, should an animal (i.e. plothera of real life racehorses with Umamusume counterparts) or even a plane qualify as "In Memorial"? Since I feel like it kinda trivializes the death of an actual individual, though I assume that the addition of An-225 is some sort of a symbolism given what is going on in Ukraine rn.

i think its generally fine to tag the images with the person being honored as a chartag since thats basically what we do with voice actor connection rn

thelieutenant said:

i think its generally fine to tag the images with the person being honored as a chartag since thats basically what we do with voice actor connection rn

I feel like with voice actor connection, the VA in question is at least "present" in a sense, while with "In Memoriam" it's more like their existence is recognized, but they aren't really present, so I'm not really a fan of using chartags of the person being honored.

thelieutenant said:

i think its generally fine to tag the images with the person being honored as a chartag since thats basically what we do with voice actor connection rn

VAs don't usually actually feature in posts, those tags basically just exist for voice actor connection posts. Toriyama Akira (character) on the other hand is specifically for his artist self-insert. So technically it's not even appropriate to use it on post #7309379, much less posts just referencing the person. The line about it also applying to irl depictions was only added yesterday.