Is hashtag only commentary useful?

The bulk update request #22354 (forum #264766) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 45 days.

The bulk update request #22512 (forum #265503) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

So there's hashtag only commentary and symbol-only commentary, should we have a name only commentary and/or title only commentary tag too?

Seems like there's a lot of "commentaries" that's only the character's name.

I don't expect uploaders to know if the commentary is the name of the character or copyright, these can be easily searched and mass translated using the text, that's what I do once in a while with big chartags. Any more commentary tags like that is padding.

While name/title commentary seem useful, it's true that it's basically just tag padding, and will be severely under-tagged as well. I don't mind hashtag only commentary though, it seems useful in conjunction with commentary's "hashtags don't need to be translated" clause.

BUR #23938 has been rejected.

create alias hashtag_only_commentary -> hashtag-only_commentary
create implication hashtag-only_commentary -> commentary

This would normalize the name and make it behave similarly to symbol-only commentary.

[deleted]

岩戸鈴芽 said:

BUR #23938 has been rejected.

create alias hashtag_only_commentary -> hashtag-only_commentary
create implication hashtag-only_commentary -> commentary

This would normalize the name and make it behave similarly to symbol-only commentary.

+1 for alias, -1 for implication. Hashtags can get reaaaaaaaally verbose and unique.

"tag padding" argument should only apply to gentags, not meta tags

[deleted]

岩戸鈴芽 said:

BUR #23938 has been rejected.

create alias hashtag_only_commentary -> hashtag-only_commentary
create implication hashtag-only_commentary -> commentary

This would normalize the name and make it behave similarly to symbol-only commentary.

Symbol-only commentary is still commentary, but a copyright hashtag is not really "commentary", so I think it shouldn't be implicated

viliml said:

Symbol-only commentary is still commentary, but a copyright hashtag is not really "commentary", so I think it shouldn't be implicated

From the commentary wiki:

If the only untranslated portions of a commentary are meta, such as hashtags or mentions, then tag it with commentary and not partial commentary or commentary request.

Commentary is for "understandable" commentary, not the mere presence of it.

岩戸鈴芽 said:

From the commentary wiki:

Commentary is for "understandable" commentary, not the mere presence of it.

Exactly. Symbols are universally understandable, which is why symbol-only commentary implies commentary. Copyright hashtags are not "real" commentary in the first place, just a quirk of how Twitter works. Pixiv tags aren't commentary, so Twitter tags shouldn't be either.

Of course, hashtags can be commentary. But they aren't always.

viliml said:

Exactly. Symbols are universally understandable, which is why symbol-only commentary implies commentary. Copyright hashtags are not "real" commentary in the first place, just a quirk of how Twitter works. Pixiv tags aren't commentary, so Twitter tags shouldn't be either.

Of course, hashtags can be commentary. But they aren't always.

You are misunderstanding. Under our current policy, if a posts's commentary only consists of hashtags it's considerd "translated". Some people still translate hashtags, and sometimes it can be useful (but not always), but this is completely optional. If we are keeping hashtag only commentary, then it should imply commentary, because as per the rules of this tag, it always applies.

岩戸鈴芽 said:

You are misunderstanding. Under our current policy, if a posts's commentary only consists of hashtags it's considerd "translated". Some people still translate hashtags, and sometimes it can be useful (but not always), but this is completely optional. If we are keeping hashtag only commentary, then it should imply commentary, because as per the rules of this tag, it always applies.

I feel like you're focusing too much on technicalities and forgetting what the word "commentary" actually means.
The sentence you quoted from the wiki is clearly meant to apply to cases when the text was translated and the hashtags were not, not when there is no text in the first place.
I do not believe that it would be a good thing for a commentary search to return posts with nothing but a copyright hashtag.

viliml said:

I feel like you're focusing too much on technicalities and forgetting what the word "commentary" actually means.
The sentence you quoted from the wiki is clearly meant to apply to cases when the text was translated and the hashtags were not, not when there is no text in the first place.
I do not believe that it would be a good thing for a commentary search to return posts with nothing but a copyright hashtag.

Yes, it would be good and that's how it is right now. Otherwise, it'd especially hurt the ability of member level users to filter translated and English hashtag-only commentary out of a -commentary commentary:untranslated search and so on. You don't simply search for commentary in general, you search for something more specific with text and tags. Btw if the tag is kept, you'll be able to filter the hashtag-only cases out of a simple commentary search like you want.

viliml said:

I feel like you're focusing too much on technicalities and forgetting what the word "commentary" actually means.
The sentence you quoted from the wiki is clearly meant to apply to cases when the text was translated and the hashtags were not, not when there is no text in the first place.
I do not believe that it would be a good thing for a commentary search to return posts with nothing but a copyright hashtag.

If it "clearly" is meant to apply only to cases when there's actual content, then the wiki should say that. The interpretation you're implying also goes against how I've always seen the tag used. Even in this topic (forum #265503) there's at least agreement that commentary encompasses both meaningful and meaningless commentary, so a commentary search already returns posts with nothing but a copyright hashtag.

hashtag_only_commentary commentary -commentary:translated already returns about 2/3 of the total tag, with another 10% being actually translated hashtags, so having it be a subset of commentary just like symbol-only commentary also aligns with how it's currently used (it was never going to be 100%, people forget commentary on fully English english commentary posts too).

I'm not saying something to make the useful searches you're describing is bad, it's quite the opposite in my opinion, but currently that's just not what commentary is for, and this very topic already contains some discussion on such a tag.

岩戸鈴芽 said:

BUR #23938 has been rejected.

create alias hashtag_only_commentary -> hashtag-only_commentary
create implication hashtag-only_commentary -> commentary

This would normalize the name and make it behave similarly to symbol-only commentary.

We shouldn't imply hashtag-only commentary to commentary, because the commentary tag is for commentaries in english. And we can't imply it to commentary_request either because sometimes it's a hashtag in english. A hashtag can be any string of characters from any language preceded by a pound sign.

A hashtag-only commentary can be something simple like the character's name, or the copyright name, but it can be anything. It can be boobs day. It can be one of the many variations of one-hour drawing challenge. A hashtag-only commentary can be any old sentence. A hashtag-only commentary can be the punchline to a joke. It's just text with a pound sign.

While we're here, hashtag usage is so broad and can be so many different things that hashtag-only commentary seems like a meaningless tag to me.

#LoveU #xoxoxo

heartattack said:

We shouldn't imply hashtag-only commentary to commentary, because the commentary tag is for commentaries in english.

symbol-only commentary implies commentary, so this is not true.

This tag also isn't meant for granular "what does the commentary say" tagging, one of its big uses would be filtering out, well, hashtag-only commentary posts from a commentary search.