Please stop arguing between yourself and derailing this topic further. Now it turned into something no one will bother to read (again).
Posted under Tags
Cort321 said:
Does the word "primarch" matter outside of 40k on this site?
it should matter as much as the superhero tag does.
Cort321 said:
unless people are adding OCs that are primarchs
there are some.
Cort321 said:
I personally would like to keep the tag only for increasing the points of detail
that in itself should be a good enough reason to keep it, details matter, to know what the primarchs are by clicking the question mark by the tag instead of just seeing them as bigger space marines, to distinguish them from the norm is the entire point of the tag, because they are pretty much demigods wrapped in power armor.
I am NOT a 40k expert since i value my wallet. I disagree with this BUR because of the cross-catagory implication.
As for the question of Primarch as a tag, is it possible to have a tag for the armor itself instead, if its one of their defining features that's a visual thing that is taggable.
EDIT: meant to post this in the other thread, but I guess the question applies here too.
zetsubousensei said:
I am NOT a 40k expert since i value my wallet. I disagree with this BUR because of the cross-catagory implication.
As for the question of Primarch as a tag, is it possible to have a tag for the armor itself instead, if its one of their defining features that's a visual thing that is taggable.
Unfortunately that wouldn't be helpful, as they are all wearing power_armor, and even if their armor and weapons are named (which they are), I don't know in what cases those equipment names will be relevant outside of 40k.
The primarch's equipment are all better than their space marine gene-sons (don't ask), but that isn't something that would be noticeable outside of lore.
Edit: I haven't checked if it is the case on this site, but the issue seems similar to, say, Battletech and tagging each individual mech by name and/or variant, correct?
Cort321 said:
I haven't checked if it is the case on this site, but the issue seems similar to, say, Battletech and tagging each individual mech by name and/or variant, correct?
no, these are demigods in suits of armor, that should warrant a tag of their own and the primarch tag is perfect, I just don't understand how this is so much of an issue to where the tag must be nuked.
again, it's pettiness, Blind knows why he's doing this, he's a petty individual through & through.
Anyway, Primarch armor is just the armor of their respective factions, but fancier. None of the Primarch's share any particular detail between them, and while I'm not sure off the top of my head, I don't think they're the only named characters with unique looking armor among their factions. Trying to tag their armor would have the same problem of requiring canon knowledge to even recognize it.
winkywonker said:
no, these are demigods in suits of armor, that should warrant a tag of their own and the primarch tag is perfect, I just don't understand how this is so much of an issue to where the tag must be nuked.
Replying to the part of this that isn't a derailing petty insult; What you describe is "canon tagging", and we usually don't do that. "canon tags" get nuked regularly, because they're hard to upkeep if the only people that know how to use them stop being active, and it blatantly goes against "tag what you see, not what you know."
I forgot to mention, out of all of these tags, if there's any that truly doesn't need to exist, it's demon primarch. The demon primarchs are just primarchs that were given demonic power and became daemon princes. I don't know why daemon prince has been left unused, but currently the demon primarchs are also tagged with primarch, which I think is redundant.
If these tags don't get nuked, then what should happen is all of the primarchs should be tagged primarch, all of the daemon princes should be tagged daemon prince, and the primarchs that became daemon princes should be tagged with both. Also if you're going to create random canon tags, at least give them wikis.
I was also going to suggest they should be qualified, but apparently 40k invented the word Primarch. My attempts to find its origin just point me back to 40k. 40k definitely didn't invent the concept of a demon prince, though, so that should still probably be qualified.
blindVigil said:
Primarch armor is just the armor of their respective factions, but fancier.
Primarch power armor is made of particular materials, alloys & tech that far outperform regular space marine armor and are designed to greatly enhance the particular traits of each Primarch.
blindVigil said:
I don't think they're the only named characters with unique looking armor among their factions
using the slight differences of the armor of any character or faction within any legion to justify your total disregard of Primarch power armor is a moot point.
blindVigil said:
Trying to tag their armor would have the same problem of requiring canon knowledge to even recognize it.
canon knowledge should be something that should be respected and used to tag any IP's respective creatures & characters accordingly the way they're supposed to, this "tag what you see" rule is outdated and has been in need of replacing for a long time now.
blindVigil said:
Replying to the part of this that isn't a derailing petty insult
says the one nuking a tag for no reason but for your own petty enjoyment.
blindVigil said:
What you describe is "canon tagging", and we usually don't do that.
of which needs changing.
blindVigil said:
because they're hard to upkeep if the only people that know how to use them stop being active
that's assuming two things:
1: the person becoming inactive to begin with.
2: a newcomer who knows about the IP as much as the inactive guy did doesn't join the site before or shortly after the old user's departure.
I've told you about how assumptions are bad foundations for arguments before.
blindVigil said:
and it blatantly goes against "tag what you see, not what you know."
what is known should be relevant to tagging otherwise why try to distinguish a girl from a boy, so instead of 1boy or 1girl they should just be 1person
superheroes that are human should just be tagged superhuman and superhero aliens should just be tagged as alien.
vampires, werewolves zombies and other classic monsters should just be called monsters while fantasy creatures like fairies and elves should just be tagged as fantasy creatures
we are going by what we see after all, not what we know, so by that oh-so-ironclad rule, for example, yes, we know that superheroes are very popular and everyone KNOWS about them, but is that what I SEE? well no, no it isn't, it's a human who is capable of flight that's wearing a cape and spandex or an alien that's wearing a space suit, and thus it should be tagged as such, why? because that is what I SEE, not what I KNOW, and as this rule dictates, we must disregard what we know, right? so, why aren't you doing something about those tags and only concentrating on this one? you are a builder after all, therefore you should know how to do your job, you should follow the rules, right? so why aren't you doing that?
blindVigil said:
if there's any that truly doesn't need to exist, it's demon primarch. The demon primarchs are just primarchs that were given demonic power and became daemon princes.
exactly, The demon Primarchs are indeed Primarchs that were given demonic power and became daemon princes, hence the reason why they are called demon Primarchs and not just demon princes because they're also Primarchs with their Primarch traits empowered thanks to the chaos gods they serve, you defeated your argument.
blindVigil said:
I don't know why daemon prince has been left unused
...because that tag is for the demon princes? not the demon Primarchs...
blindVigil said:
but currently the demon primarchs are also tagged with primarch, which I think is redundant.
this I agree with.
blindVigil said:
If these tags don't get nuked, then what should happen is all of the primarchs should be tagged primarch, all of the daemon princes should be tagged daemon prince, and the primarchs that became daemon princes should be tagged with both. Also if you're going to create random canon tags, at least give them wikis.
this entire section is pointless, you've already won over the crowd of fellow purpleheads like yourself.
blindVigil said:
I was also going to suggest they should be qualified, but apparently 40k invented the word Primarch. My attempts to find its origin just point me back to 40k.
it is an amalgamation of two words:
1: Prime: Meaning 'of the best possible quality'.
2- Archon: Taken from the Greek, meaning Ruler.
thus, Primarch translates to 'A ruler of the best possible quality'
blindVigil said:
40k definitely didn't invent the concept of a demon prince, though, so that should still probably be qualified.
too late for that.
blindVigil said:
And again, I never insulted anybody.
you don't need to insult anybody to be insulting.
Updated
canon knowledge should be something that should be respected and used to tag any IP's respective creatures & characters accordingly the way they're supposed to, this "tag what you see" rule is outdated and has been in need of replacing for a long time now.
If I upload a 40k post I'm not going to go scouring through off-site wikis just to figure out the DEEP LORE behind that character. I'm going to tag it according to what little 40k I know and move on.
Your ideology behind tagging things is inherently flawed and does not align with what has been the precedent on this site for nearly 19 years.
Race tags (werewolf, mermaid, dullahan, etc) are all visual tags. If they weren't, you wouldn't be able to search for transformed werewolves, people with fish tails, dullahans without their heads, etc etc.
If you cannot visually see whether or not someone is a certain species, you do not tag them as one even if they are canonically.
The funny thing about all those examples I listed, though: Is that they all have very unique defining physical characteristics. You know exactly what they are when you see them.
I do not know anything about 40k past a surface level. I do not know what a Primarch is nor do I want to read your random unsolicited lore dumps.
you've already won over the crowd of fellow purpleheads like yourself.
...Ignoring the fact that you just made up a slur for builders, we're not trying to convince anyone but yourself. We're trying to tell you very matter of factly why and how your ideas of tagging wouldn't be smart to put in practice and you are ignoring it.
winkywonker said:
Primarch power armor is made of particular materials, alloys & tech that far outperform regular space marine armor and are designed to greatly enhance the particular traits of each Primarch.
You can't see any of those details, so they're irrelevant. They just look like fancy power armor to anyone not familiar with the DEEP LORE which makes it untaggable.
canon knowledge should be something that should be respected and used to tag any IP's respective creatures & characters accordingly the way they're supposed to, this "tag what you see" rule is outdated and has been in need of replacing for a long time now.
You will never convince evazion, nonamethanks, or literally any other veteran user of this. To even suggest this is a monumental waste of time.
that's assuming two things:
1: the person becoming inactive to begin with.
2: a newcomer who knows about the IP as much as the inactive guy did doesn't join the site before or shortly after the old user's departure.
I've told you about how assumptions are bad foundations for arguments before.
Why would you even try to plan for #2 to happen? #1 happens all the time. It happens so often it's easier to plan for than expecting that there'll always be someone new to take up the mantle. Tags get abandoned by their "owners" all the time. Tags shouldn't need owners, they should be useable by as many people as possible, and tags based exclusively on canon info are not.
what is known should be relevant to tagging otherwise why try to distinguish a girl from a boy, so instead of 1boy or 1girl they should just be 1person
Girls and boys are visually identifiable. Trying to argue otherwise is being disingenuous at best. "Traps" and "reverse traps" are exceptions, exceptions are not the rule. To put numbers to this, otoko no ko has 48k posts, 1boy has 1.1 million. That's 0.044%. If it looks like a girl, 99.96% of the time, it is.
exactly, The demon Primarchs are indeed Primarchs that were given demonic power and became daemon princes, hence the reason why they are called demon Primarchs and not just demon princes because they're also Primarchs with their Primarch traits empowered thanks to the chaos gods they serve, you defeated your argument.
...because that tag is for the demon princes? not the demon Primarchs...
I don't get it because demon primarchs are daemon princes. Tagging them as demon primarchs is just being unnecessarily specific. This is not a 40k fansite, we don't need 30 tags covering the same things. A demon primarch is both a daemon prince and a primarch. There's no point tagging them as a primarch twice.
this entire section is pointless, you've already won over the crowd of fellow purpleheads like yourself.
If you dropped your grudge long enough to actually take this discussion seriously, you would remember when I said that admins get the final say on BURs. NNT can still reject it even if it had unanimous support. So it's still a good idea to establish what should happen to the tags in that event.
it is an amalgamation of two words:
1: Prime: Meaning 'of the best possible quality'.
2- Archon: Taken from the Greek, meaning Ruler.
thus, Primarch translates to 'A ruler of the best possible quality'
Thanks for telling me what I already learned from googling it. The meaning of the word isn't relevant to where it came from, which is apparently 40k.
says the one nuking a tag for no reason but for your own petty enjoyment.
you don't need to insult anybody to be insulting.
Stop trying to derail the thread. You're lucky breaking the community rules didn't get you a ban as it is.
Updated
sabisabi said:
If I upload a 40k post I'm not going to go scouring through off-site wikis just to figure out the DEEP LORE behind that character. I'm going to tag it according to what little 40k I know and move on.
laziness is not an excuse bro, if you can't commit to the base amount of effort necessary to tag any pic of a large IP accordingly then perhaps you shouldn't upload anything of that IP at all.
sabisabi said:
Your ideology behind tagging things is inherently flawed and does not align with what has been the precedent on this site for nearly 19 years.
19 years? I think it's about time some changes happen to these outdated rules.
sabisabi said:
Race tags (werewolf, mermaid, dullahan, etc) are all visual tags.
race tags that are based purely on what we know, not what we see.
a werewolf has the features of a wolf, so I'll tag 1monster, male, wolf ears, snout, sharp teeth, fingernails, glowing eyes, transformation (if it's depicted in the pic), and such.
a mermaid is a half-fish person, so I'll tag 1creature, female, fins, breasts, blue eyes, red hair, and so on.
a dullahan is a headless human that can use magic, so I'll tag 1person, superhuman (because of them surviving without their head attached), magic, disembodied head, and such.
sabisabi said:
If they weren't, you wouldn't be able to search for transformed werewolves, people with fish tails, dullahans without their heads, etc etc.
yes you could
search 1monster, transformed human, canine_features
search 1creature, half human, half fish, female, breasts
search 1human, disembodied head, superhuman, magic
you could even add the name of the origin of these monsters and creatures in the copyright section so people can know not just from what series the character is from but from where the original idea of the werewolf or the mermaid was created.
also, most of the time when people use this site they probably already know the name of the character they're looking for and so don't need to do all of this to begin with.
sabisabi said:
If you cannot visually see whether or not someone is a certain species, you do not tag them as one even if they are canonically.
then Superman, Batman & Spiderman shouldn't be called superheroes, they're just wearing capes & spandex, I don't SEE a superhero, I see a male or female person wearing tight bodysuits.
sabisabi said:
Is that they all have very unique defining physical characteristics. You know exactly what they are when you see them.
exactly, that is what you know, and thus you're going by and tagging by what you know, not what you see...you see the conundrum? the hypocrisy of it all? the contradicting nature of this outdated 19-year-old rule?
sabisabi said:
I do not know anything about 40k past a surface level. I do not know what a Primarch is nor do I want to read your random unsolicited lore dumps.
so you're actively looking to stay ignorant just so you can bypass a good argument against your jackbooted ways of rule-stickling? one of which you break every day.
sabisabi said:
we're not trying to convince anyone but yourself.
don't worry, not once have I had any hope of convincing any of you, I know you're minds are made up as soon as you see a fellow purple make any forum post with a voting mechanic, this is the forums after all, there's never a fair fight here.
sabisabi said:
We're trying to tell you very matter of factly why and how your ideas of tagging wouldn't be smart to put in practice and you are ignoring it.
that's what you're trying to do, what you are doing is showing your hypocrisy and exposing the faultyness of some of this site's outdated rules.
blindVirgil said:
You can't see any of those details, so they're irrelevant. They just look like fancy power armor to anyone not familiar with the DEEP LORE which makes it untaggable.
then nuke the superhero tag.
blindVirgil said:
You will never convince evazion, nonamethanks, or literally any other veteran user of this. To even suggest this is a monumental waste of time.
I don't need to, I just need to buy the servers from evazion with a number he can't refuse, something I've been saving up towards for quite a few years now, when that time comes I hope you have this same energy.
blindVirgil said:
Why would you even try to plan for #2 to happen? #1 happens all the time. It happens so often it's easier to plan for than expecting that there'll always be someone new to take up the mantle.
you shouldn't have to plan either way, I don't see what harm tags that are specific to any given IP do to the site, isn't more categorization better overall for everyone and the site?
many people know what a Primarch is just like how many people know what a superhero is, yet because YOU don't know about this 50-year-old IP but do know about superheroes, the primarch tag gets nuked while the superhero tag stays, yet they're both equally as vague, the sheer hypocrisy of it all, make it make sense.
blindVirgil said:
Tags get abandoned by their "owners" all the time.
why does there have to be an owner of a tag? why can't an IP have its own set of tags that people who are fans of said IP can use to better categorize anything that may look like tag A but also has enough features to warrant tag B as well? then proceed to use both tags, therefore, both the fans of the IP can search for the name of this species of alien or monster that is specific to said IP, all while allowing any layperson to search the tag that covers a much broader spectrum of species in general like the alien or monster tags, I just don't see the problem IP specific tagging.
blindVirgil said:
they should be useable by as many people as possible
agreed, so why are you nuking a tag that many people use?
blindVirgil said:
and tags based exclusively on canon info are not.
unless if the IP is large enough, like wh40k, which is only gonna grow in popularity through the years, Henry Cavill's about to make a damn tv series that'll be backed by Amazon's pocket money, we'll revisit all of this then when that time comes I bet.
blindVirgil said:
Girls and boys are visually identifiable. Trying to argue otherwise is being disingenuous at best.
yes but that's going by what you know, you know that they are male or female, but what you see is a human or a person, and we're going by what we see after all.
it's not disingenuous to call a human a human or a person a person, that's what they are, if the human is either male or female then you add the tags male or female, and if there are multiple people of one sex then you use the tags multiple girls or multiple boys, both of which I believe exist.
blindVirgil said:
"Traps" and "reverse traps" are exceptions, exceptions are not the rule
so you make exceptions to the rule only when it's convenient? got it.
blindVirgil said:
To put numbers to this, otoko no ko has 48k posts, 1boy has 1.1 million. That's 0.044%. If it looks like a girl, 99.96% of the time, it is.
the numbers are pointless if you can just bulk change the tag's name from 1boy to 1person and otoko no ko to fem-male.
blindVirgil said:
I don't get it because demon primarchs are daemon princes. Tagging them as demon primarchs is just being unnecessarily specific.
isn't that the whole point of tagging? to tag accordingly by picking the specific tags that describe the image in one word or phrase?
I concede this argument anyway because they're all nuked regardless.
blindVirgil said:
This is not a 40k fansite
nor does it need to be in order to respect IPs by using tags that are specific to that IP and tags that cover a broader spectrum both at once, therefore making both the fan and the layperson happy.
blindVirgil said:
we don't need 30 tags covering the same things. A demon primarch is both a daemon prince and a primarch.
you say "we don't need 30 tags covering the same things." but then immediately proceed to vouch for two tags that describe two different things instead of the one tag that describes the only thing that needs describing which is that it's a Primarch that's turned completely to the powers of chaos and is now a servant of one of the four dark gods of chaos.
blindVirgil said:
There's no point tagging them as a primarch twice.
true, which is why any pic that only has a demon Primarch should be tagged as only a demon Primarch, the Primarch tag shouldn't be there.
blindVirgil said:
If you dropped your grudge long enough to actually take this discussion seriously
I am taking this seriously, it's why I'm still here.
blindVirgil said:
you would remember when I said that admins get the final say on BURs.
admin Unbreakable has voted yes to the nuke so there you have it.
blindVirgil said:
NNT can still reject it even if it had unanimous support.
then...WTFs the point of any of this? it's just a big waste of time.
blindVirgil said:
The meaning of the word isn't relevant to where it came from, which is apparently 40k.
and why is that a problem that it came from 40k, is that the problem?
blindVirgil said:
Stop trying to derail the thread. You're lucky breaking the community rules didn't get you a ban as it is.
seethe & rage at someone who cares.
Updated
winkywonker said:
yes you could
search 1monster, transformed human, canine_features
search 1creature, half human, half fish, female, breasts
search 1human, disembodied head, superhuman, magic
you could even add the name of the origin of these monsters and creatures in the copyright section so people can know not just from what series the character is from but from where the original idea of the werewolf or the mermaid was created.
....is this a legitimate suggestion for a radical change to our tagging system or are you making up random hypotheticals just for the sake of it
He's arguing that if we aren't nuking things like elf (a race with pointy ears) then why nuke primarch.
Mermaid may not be the best example of "canon knowledge" since it's easily taught/recognized on a global scale and described as visual traits of half human and half fish. post #6872273 (Viking dude) and post #6872265 (Mongol dude) depicts them without "Warhammer armor" yet are tagged primarch because, I assume, of their identity. Mermaid has additional utility of being one memorable tag serving both free users (who can't search more than 2 tags; also an outdated restriction) and above.
Does primarch have a good use case outside of having wiki page for list of primarches? Does someone go "I want to search the this set of ~20 guys from this copyright and not the other guys"?
The "hypocritical" tag-what-you-see'ers don't want currently available canon tagging to be used as a precedent for "anything goes".
Updated
winkywonker said:
I don't need to, I just need to buy the servers from evazion with a number he can't refuse, something I've been saving up towards for quite a few years now, when that time comes I hope you have this same energy.
I was actually working on replying to all of that, but then I got to this part. This discussion is a joke, it's obvious you aren't taking this seriously. If you really care about this topic, stop writing idiotic walls of fragmented responses and speak in paragraphs like everyone else.
sabisabi said:
....is this a legitimate suggestion for a radical change to our tagging system or are you making up random hypotheticals just for the sake of it
no, I'm serious, because if you feel as if you can take liberties and bypass rules only when it's convenient for you then there's no point to those rules to begin with because they're only upheld or disregarded when it's convenient to do so, and then it comes down to any individual's opinion on what they think this site should be about and what is and isn't accepted whether it be the rules, tagging or posts, everything just seems to be too malleable for me to consider anything you dub as "concrete fact" as such because everything is manipulable, everything and anything can change whenever any individual thinks a thing is or isn't necessary, and then we proceed down a neverending cycle of "should it stay or should it go", at the end of the day it's all about convenience, yet you don't want convenience because you want to just put rules in place that end up never being truly upheld, which is exactly what's bound to happen when you give any number of strangers the power to munipulate the rules by being high enough in the food chain to do so without consequences.
nanashi3 said:
The "hypocritical" tag-what-you-see'ers don't want currently available canon tagging to be used as a precedent for "anything goes".
I don't want "anything goes" I want the canon material of any large IP to be respected by an improved system that allows both tags that are exclusive to an IP (of which there are many that already exist and have existed for years on this site btw) and the tags that cover a broader number of posts, I don't see the harm in that, it'd make for much better categorization.
blindVigil said:
ok.