Posted under Tags
I came across hashtag only commentary today. Different from symbols, you can search for hashtag texts with minor false positives if your goal is to translate them and at least I usually filter commentaries by text and translation status.
Right now I can only see it being useful to search for a specific post if you know it has a hashtag only commentary but you don't know the hashtag and you aren't a member level user.
I'd actually be in favor of creating link_only_commentary since it catches both hashtags and other things that hashtag_only misses. Only downside there is that some people may be interested in translating the hashtags and links can't really be translated... but the default position is that translating hashtags isn't necessary at all, which is why I think links_only is better.
I do think it'd be useful to differentiate between commentary-tagged posts that actually had translations done and posts that only contain meta-info, like hashtags, so in that sense I do find hashtag only commentary useful (though it should be aliased to hashtag-only commentary), but I wouldnt be opposed to link-only commentary for the reasons Toctoc descibed.
Toctoc said:
I'd actually be in favor of creating link_only_commentary since it catches both hashtags and other things that hashtag_only misses. Only downside there is that some people may be interested in translating the hashtags and links can't really be translated... but the default position is that translating hashtags isn't necessary at all, which is why I think links_only is better.
I think most posts with hashtag only commentary can eventually be translated by bots.
EDIT:
岩戸鈴芽 said:
I do think it'd be useful to differentiate between commentary-tagged posts that actually had translations done and posts that only contain meta-info, like hashtags, so in that sense I do find hashtag only commentary useful (though it should be aliased to hashtag-only commentary), but I wouldnt be opposed to link-only commentary for the reasons Toctoc descibed.
I think it wouldn't be very useful to search for posts or filter commentaries to translate and not many people would search for commentaries simply to look at them like images. Links in general can be searched with http in the Artist Commentary page, for example, and if you're translating or searching for translated commentaries, posts with meta commentary can be filtered with commentary -commentary:translated, which's the tagging norm mentioned in commentary.
Updated
BUR #22354 has been rejected.
create alias hashtag_only_commentary -> link-only_commentary
Alternatively.
All these commentary tags like symbol-only commentary and hashtag only commentary are really all trying to tag the same thing: useless/untranslatable commentary. I don't think we need a million subtags for all the possible variations of this concept. Realistically the only people who will ever search for this are translators who are trying to remove them from the search results, and bots.
BUR #22512 has been rejected.
create alias hashtag_only_commentary -> nontextual_commentary
create alias symbol-only_commentary -> nontextual_commentary
Final name pending
I like the ability to exclude those kinds of commentary for the reasons mentioned above, and fine granular control isn't needed for this so alternatively alternatively.
This also gives a place for:
GabrielWB said:
BUR #22512 has been rejected.
create alias hashtag_only_commentary -> nontextual_commentary
create alias symbol-only_commentary -> nontextual_commentaryFinal name pending
I like the ability to exclude those kinds of commentary for the reasons mentioned above, and fine granular control isn't needed for this so alternatively alternatively.
This also gives a place for:
- Certain trends like twitter_rabbit_ears_(meme) without including cases where its included in the image itself like post #6277179.
- Commentary containing nothing but non-hashtag links. HD: https://files.catbox.moe/herpaderp.png
- Commentary that is only Untitled / 無題 / 无题
I think there's fundamental differences in the things being aliased here:
Foo: https://bar.com/ and "Foo":https://bar.com/ links like they're the same, like in your example).Personally I would like a sort of tag to describe the less interesting commentaries, maybe one for ones that include only commentary as described here + character names, but all ideas I've come up with or come across so far have usually irked me in one way or another.
Hashtags are literally text, though? Sure, a lot of them will be just ships, character names, copyright names and so on (which are all form of text btw)... But look at the hashtag in post #6956829 ("#今年も残りわずかなので今年一番伸びた絵を貼る見た絵描きさんも強制でやる", DeepL translates it as "Since there are only a few days left in this year, I'm going to put up the picture that has grown the most this year, and I'm going to force the painters who have seen it to do it too."). Or in post #6203313 ("#線画と完成", DeepL: Line drawing and completion). Or the tags in this Tumblr post ("#my art #it's been a whole 2 years since girls in the hood was released! wow! #actually a complete coincidence that i was able to meet this anniversary :') glad i could though!"). All of those could be put into the posts without the # and they'd still be relevant.
KagayakuShiningGate said:
Hashtags are literally text, though? Sure, a lot of them will be just ships, character names, copyright names and so on (which are all form of text btw)... But look at the hashtag in post #6956829 ("#今年も残りわずかなので今年一番伸びた絵を貼る見た絵描きさんも強制でやる", DeepL translates it as "Since there are only a few days left in this year, I'm going to put up the picture that has grown the most this year, and I'm going to force the painters who have seen it to do it too."). Or in post #6203313 ("#線画と完成", DeepL: Line drawing and completion). Or the tags in this Tumblr post ("#my art #it's been a whole 2 years since girls in the hood was released! wow! #actually a complete coincidence that i was able to meet this anniversary :') glad i could though!"). All of those could be put into the posts without the # and they'd still be relevant.
I don't disagree that, while in the strictest sense of the words, a hashtag is indeed text with a link associated to it, currently it's treated as less important/valuable than true, non-link text (ie they don't count when symbols are present and are ignored for the purposes of symbol-only_commentary - we may need somebody who knows how that tag got made/defined/updated to give input here)
I feel you that it's true that sometimes the hashtags can have more elaborate things that could be of interest or even add meaning to a specific picture, but without any hard data on it and just from my time working on doing commentary TL (if you can even call it that, considering how minimal the TLs I can do are), the impression I get is that they're not really useful/relevant the majority of the time, hence them being relegated to their own subclass of commentary. In the hierarchy of "relevant" things, it's at the very bottom... but imo the tag should not be nuked, since it's the only indicator we have to indicate that -something- is in the commentary, even if it's the kind of thing most people wouldn't derive much use from as things currently stand.
nontextual_commentary absolutely isn't the best name (I even used Bing to generate some suggestions and this one was the least bad) but in this context nontextual means more "Text that doesn't contain any meaning" or "Text without substance" for a heavy lack of a better definition.
Going back those bulky Twitter tags like #今年も残りわずかなので今年一番伸びた絵を貼る見た絵描きさんも強制でやる or those Tumblr posts where entire paragraphs have been put into the hashtags, those absolutely DO contain substance and meaning and should not be tagged as such.
With hashtag_only_commentary and its clear definition of "solely contains hashtag(s)" these posts would be thrown onto the pile with other posts containing nothing but filler tags. By having a tag like nontextual_commentary around, these posts can be separated from those.
Regarding Untitled and its derivatives; I'm probably late to the party with this, but I did some experimenting and it looks like you can actually use the OR operator within a commentary text field search as in commentary:"Untitled OR 無題 OR 无题" and commentary:"-Untitled OR -無題 OR -无题" so that is a revolutionary discovery for me. But I would still happily throw these posts under a nontextual_commentary tag.
Again, the name is absolutely not final. It's more the concept of having a tag to separate the wheat-commentary from the chaff-commentary.
One problem I find with grouping all those non-wordy (or single-word) hashtags together is that it still discards some information. Some commentaries like "#Arknights #アークナイツ #明日方舟" probably don't need translation, but while I personally don't do it, a commentary like "#明日方舟" could definitely be worthwhile translating, or at least putting a [tn][/tn] explaining it (which I sometimes do).
岩戸鈴芽 said:
One problem I find with grouping all those non-wordy (or single-word) hashtags together is that it still discards some information. Some commentaries like "#Arknights #アークナイツ #明日方舟" probably don't need translation, but while I personally don't do it, a commentary like "#明日方舟" could definitely be worthwhile translating, or at least putting a
[tn][/tn]explaining it (which I sometimes do).
Don't know if there's a good way to differentiate it since it's likely context dependent and would require the uploader/tagger to know what they're doing regarding the hashtags... Even if this were the case, it might be better to do hashtag-only or link-only or whatever it winds up being + commentary_request to signify that there's something there that may be worthwhile. Would signal that there's something to be found but that it's low priority
Toctoc said:
Don't know if there's a good way to differentiate it since it's likely context dependent and would require the uploader/tagger to know what they're doing regarding the hashtags... Even if this were the case, it might be better to do hashtag-only or link-only or whatever it winds up being + commentary_request to signify that there's something there that may be worthwhile. Would signal that there's something to be found but that it's low priority
All you need is this or this to go around translating that and whatever else you're capable of en masse, you don't need multiple meta tags to filter even more.
The bulk update request #22353 (forum #264765) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.