This thread will host the discussion for how to alias characters from the Mon-musu Quest! series.
I would have started already with x_(mon-musu_quest:_paradox) -> x_(mon-musu_quest!), but it occurred to me mid-BUR that we have two Liliths. Lilith (Mon-musu Quest!) and Lilith (Mon-musu Quest: Paradox) are two separate characters entirely.
So how do we handle this? The idea is to end in aliases to their Paradox Companion names (per topic #24942), but if the trend continues as it is- We'll have two Liliths in the castle. Paradox part 3 has a large demo out, so it's possible there's a differentiator written in the game already.
This thread will host the discussion for how to alias characters from the Mon-musu Quest! series.
I would have started already with x_(mon-musu_quest:_paradox) -> x_(mon-musu_quest!), but it occurred to me mid-BUR that we have two Liliths. Lilith (Mon-musu Quest!) and Lilith (Mon-musu Quest: Paradox) are two separate characters entirely.
So how do we handle this? The idea is to end in aliases to their Paradox Companion names (per topic #24942), but if the trend continues as it is- We'll have two Liliths in the castle. Paradox part 3 has a large demo out, so it's possible there's a differentiator written in the game already.
The differentiator in the game is that Lilith (MG1) isn't her own unit, she isn't referred to on her own and shares a sprite with her sister(?) Lilim. In gameplay, they are "Lilith and Lilim". I don't really think this works as a solution for danbooru. Annoyingly you can't even differentiate them based on one being a member of "The Lilith Sisters" because they're both members of similar cliques. I do have a proposed solution, but I'm not happy about it.
I don't think the mon-musu:Paradox distinction on the characters are necessary, but I do think that for very specifically the Lilith from Paradox a possible solution is Lilith_(Paradox)_(Mon-musu_Quest!). Are there other cases something like this has happened? How does danbooru normally distinguish between characters with the same name in the same series?
To start, these characters are safe to alias right now. [EDIT] Added Yuki-Onna and Erubetie. Yuki-Onna isn't using a consistent copyright qualifier, and it's about time we fixed Elvetie to Erubetie. Grand Noah Queen -> Queen of Grand Noah to match the other kings and queens (Except Sabasa King? Which might change in Paradox part 3)
Uncertain of action to take: beelzebub_(mon-musu_quest!). This is a trio of fly girls in MGQ, and separately assignable to your party in MGQ:P. I think that they should have separated tags. Frog_girl_(mon-musu_quest!). This is treated as multiple characters in MGQ, and a duo in MGQ:P. We currently separate Lilim and Lilith, so should we separate "Keroron & Kururu"? ant_girl_(mon-musu_quest!). This refers to the ant girls under Queen Ant's rule in both MGQ and MGQ:P- They don't receive a real name, but the translation patch and the wiki calls the companion "Ants". I am unsure if this should be changed. purple_slime_(mon-musu_quest!), green_slime_(mon-musu_quest!), blue slime, and red slime are grouped together as "Slimies" in the translation patch but still retain their titles when referred to individually. I don't think this needs aliasing. succubus_witch_(mon-musu_quest!) is named "Witch" as a companion in the translation patch, but retains the same name in Japanese. Shortening this tag provides no benefit. iron_maiden_(mon-musu_quest!) is named "Maiden" as a companion in the translation patch, but it is not specified if the Japanese name is retained. Not necessary in my opinion. brynhildr_(mon-musu_quest!) is named "Hild" as a companion in the translation patch. I don't think this is necessary to alias, personally. angel_soldier_(mon-musu_quest!) refers to five angels with minor differences distinguishing each. Their only separation in game provided is A, B, C, D, and E. Unless someone draws one specific angel a lot, there's no need to deal with this.
This thread will host the discussion for how to alias characters from the Mon-musu Quest! series.
I would have started already with x_(mon-musu_quest:_paradox) -> x_(mon-musu_quest!), but it occurred to me mid-BUR that we have two Liliths. Lilith (Mon-musu Quest!) and Lilith (Mon-musu Quest: Paradox) are two separate characters entirely.
So how do we handle this? The idea is to end in aliases to their Paradox Companion names (per topic #24942), but if the trend continues as it is- We'll have two Liliths in the castle. Paradox part 3 has a large demo out, so it's possible there's a differentiator written in the game already.
HoshiAkane said:
The differentiator in the game is that Lilith (MG1) isn't her own unit, she isn't referred to on her own and shares a sprite with her sister(?) Lilim. In gameplay, they are "Lilith and Lilim". I don't really think this works as a solution for danbooru. Annoyingly you can't even differentiate them based on one being a member of "The Lilith Sisters" because they're both members of similar cliques. I do have a proposed solution, but I'm not happy about it.
I don't think the mon-musu:Paradox distinction on the characters are necessary, but I do think that for very specifically the Lilith from Paradox a possible solution is Lilith_(Paradox)_(Mon-musu_Quest!). Are there other cases something like this has happened? How does danbooru normally distinguish between characters with the same name in the same series?
Just keep both Lilith the way it is. It's 100% okay to have a more specific in-series qualifier when both character within the same series are ambiguous to each other, like with some Yu-Gi-Oh! cases for example.
I'm not sure if this is a good way to go. The companion names are more obscure than the monster girl names I think. I suggest reversing these aliases. Also, you're aliasing tags that have 0 posts.
Uncertain of action to take: beelzebub_(mon-musu_quest!). This is a trio of fly girls in MGQ, and separately assignable to your party in MGQ:P. I think that they should have separated tags. Frog_girl_(mon-musu_quest!). This is treated as multiple characters in MGQ, and a duo in MGQ:P. We currently separate Lilim and Lilith, so should we separate "Keroron & Kururu"? ant_girl_(mon-musu_quest!). This refers to the ant girls under Queen Ant's rule in both MGQ and MGQ:P- They don't receive a real name, but the translation patch and the wiki calls the companion "Ants". I am unsure if this should be changed. purple_slime_(mon-musu_quest!), green_slime_(mon-musu_quest!), blue slime, and red slime are grouped together as "Slimies" in the translation patch but still retain their titles when referred to individually. I don't think this needs aliasing. succubus_witch_(mon-musu_quest!) is named "Witch" as a companion in the translation patch, but retains the same name in Japanese. Shortening this tag provides no benefit. iron_maiden_(mon-musu_quest!) is named "Maiden" as a companion in the translation patch, but it is not specified if the Japanese name is retained. Not necessary in my opinion. brynhildr_(mon-musu_quest!) is named "Hild" as a companion in the translation patch. I don't think this is necessary to alias, personally. angel_soldier_(mon-musu_quest!) refers to five angels with minor differences distinguishing each. Their only separation in game provided is A, B, C, D, and E. Unless someone draws one specific angel a lot, there's no need to deal with this.
Daji Monmusu is an error. She's a collab scenario character from Shrift. Ayane is from the collab scenario as well, but she's a mgq original, she's unique to the collab. Her monster name is Demi-Nightmare.
Other notes: I brought up Ants, Iron Maiden, Succubus Witch in the previous thread, and I agree they shouldn't be touched. I also agree that there's no reason to alias most of the horde characters. Slimies should stay as is, because they're physically distinct, and Angel soldiers (while a little bit distinct) and ants are basically impossible to tag separately.
By memory, the frog girls aren't physically distinct so it'd be impossible for us to separate the two, so them staying as is make sense to me.
This is intended for approval after the previous BUR, which would populate those two.
Oh, I see it now. I believe the companion names in BUR #21524 shouldn't be the main tag still because it's a name players will only know under more specific circumstances, and even the wikis uses the standard monster name as the main name for their pages. It's a matter of tag recognizability.
it's a name players will only know under more specific circumstances, and even the wikis uses the standard monster name as the main name for their pages. It's a matter of tag recognizability.
There are a few reasons that make using the companion name superior to the monster name.
1. How many characters on Pixiv are simply labelled as "Crab Girl", "Samurai Elf", or "Undine"? Names are simply easier to find. 2. There are already posts on Pixiv tagged with the companion names for many of the characters. Take Rami for example. 3. If some monsters are already labeled by their name like Alice and Eva, why not make it consistent?
Additional things to review: Creative liberties taken with vanilla names.
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Bunni/うさ (Bunny Slime/バニースライム) (うさ=Usa?) Teeny/プチ (Tiny Lamia/プチラミア) (プチ=Puchi?) Barbun/バーニー (Rabbit Girl/ウサギ娘) (バーニー=Bunny/Bunni? But bunny slime is using that name in the patch) Chirp/ちゅん (Sparrow Girl/スズメ娘) (ちゅん=Chun?) Rosary/ロザリオ (Slug Nun/ナメクジシスター) (ロザリオ=Rosario?) Pumpkin/かぼちゃ (Jack O Lantern/ジャックオーランタン) (かぼちゃ=Kabocho?) Chandra/キャンドラ (Candle Girl/キャンドル娘) (キャンドラ=Candora?) Fleesia/フレシア (Rafflesia Girl/ラフレシア娘) (Fleesia/Fleshia?) Kitsu/きつね (Two-tailed Silver Kitsune/銀狐二尾) (きつね=Kitsune?) Soapy/ソープ (Crab Girl/カニ娘) (ソープ=Soap?) Kyona/杏奈 (Anteater Girl/アリクイ娘) (杏奈=Anna? But Suck Vore is アンナ/Anna?) Mitsuko/蜜壺 (Honey Pot/蜜壺) (蜜壺=Mitsu tsubo?) Gekka/月花 (Samurai Elf/サムライエルフ) (月花=Tsuki hana?) Shirohebi/白蛇様 (Shirohebi/白蛇様) (白蛇様=Shirohebi-sama?) Paianne/パイン (Paizuri Doll/パイズリ人形) (パイン=Pine?) Konan/虎南 (Tiger Girl/トラ娘) (虎南=A number of things but I didn't see Konan?) Cupi/キューピー (Cupid/キューピッド) (Changing previous stance. キューピー is distinct from キューピッド) Gabby/がぶり (Chimera Beast/キメラビースト) (がぶり=Gaburi? Definitely not Gabriel, however) Flappy/ぱたぱた (Experimental Organism A-3/実験体Ａ－３) (ぱたぱた=Patapata?) Wrappy/まっきー (Experimental Organism AD-5/実験体ＡＤ－５) (まっきー= Makki?) Spinny/ぐるる (Experimental Organism Q-5/実験体Ｑ－５) (ぐるる=Gururu?) Magical Mari-chan/マジカルまりんちゃん (Magical Girl/魔法少女) (マジカルまりんちゃん=Magical Marin-chan?)
Less important to bother with:
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Cylla/キューラ (Scylla/スキュラ) (I don't even know how to pronounce scylla, so forget these) Aranje/アラーニェ (Arachne Lord/アラクネロード) (Spanish for spider. Worth mentioning because of the J, uncommon to English native speakers) Elisabeth/エリザベス (High Slug/ハイスラッグ娘) vs Elizabeth/エリザベート (Elizabeth/エリザベート) (Should be fine to separate as shown. Could go for High Slug/Elizabess if you really want) Lilith & Lilim/リリス＆リリム (Twin Succubi/クィーンサキュバス) (We separate them as two characters. Might have to review H scenes to find out which is which) Knoot/クヌート (Polar Bear Girl/シロクマ娘) (Norwegian origins? To investigate) Kockyoin/花京淫 (Noriaki/典明) (Kakyoin Noriaki, except 花京淫=/=花京院. "淫" means lewd or kinky, according to google translate? Fan patchers are probably in the right here) Lara/ララ (Villager/村人) (ララ could easily be lala or rara or rala. To keep in mind for Paradox Part 3)
Not changing names already etched into the first trilogy, such as Lazarus/ラザロ, Raffia/ラフィ, or Domaimer/ドーメイマ.
List of Mon-musu Quest! characters I compiled. Incomplete/WIP. Need to include more NPCs, such as ones not found in the Monsterpedia like Garf***d and Luka's dad. Need to reorganize on a different principle than the enemy and companion indexes. Change extra entries. Format with double brackets.
By memory, the frog girls aren't physically distinct so it'd be impossible for us to separate the two, so them staying as is make sense to me.
Apparently they are distinct. Short hair with medium breasts (post #1357914) and long hair with large breasts (post #1357912). Plus some third other we only see in loss CG (post #1314505).
The Crab Girl for example is univerally more known as Crab Girl than Soapy, a name that does not appeared in the original games, while Crab Girl is shown as the standard name in the wikis. Most players certainly got into Monster Girl Quest throught the original trilogy. Again, recognizability should be taken into consideration over the much more obscure companion names.
baconmeh2 said:
There are a few reasons that make using the companion name superior to the monster name.
1. How many characters on Pixiv are simply labelled as "Crab Girl", "Samurai Elf", or "Undine"? Names are simply easier to find. 2. There are already posts on Pixiv tagged with the companion names for many of the characters. Take Rami for example. 3. If some monsters are already labeled by their name like Alice and Eva, why not make it consistent?
1. On Pixiv, you can search for the character names by simply using the japanese name and sometimes you just add "(もんむす・くえすと!)". Of course there would need to be a way to search for art for these characters for all these years. Thefore, you can easily search for the monster name and the companion name. Also, if I'm searching for a MGQ character, I'll propably search for the name that was displayed in those games, or the wikis, and the result I'll get will be the standard, monster name. 2. And there are (likely more) posts tagged with the standard monster name as well. 3. Because there are no other names for these characters.
I believe A is the way to go, using the wiki to resolve name translations makes sense for an english focused website. Literal translations aren't useful to most of us.
Admittedly when I started the last thread, it was mainly to resolve the Remi, Rumi, Imp_Girl trio, where art of three connected characters neccessitated two 'name' tags and one 'generic species' tag. This is fundamentally a problem with how monster girl quest paradox deals with species, but I think pretending the individuals don't exist is a bad way to handle it. Across both threads only one person has said we should use the monster names, so I don't think C is a good option.
All very valid opinions. For consistency's sake, it would do well to align to the names given to the monsters.
As @mortalkombachan mentioned however, recognizability must be taken into consideration. I believe that problem is easily solved by creating aliases for characters already tagged with their name (i.e alias seaweed_girl_(mgq!) -> wakame_(mgq!)). That way, beginning to type in the name of the monster will suggest the companion name, or replace it outright once you've clicked submit.
I am holding off on this until everyone who can give input, has given input. Drag out some more users who've played Paradox. Four players (3 to 1) is kinda decisive, but five is cooler.
All very valid opinions. For consistency's sake, it would do well to align to the names given to the monsters.
As @mortalkombachan mentioned however, recognizability must be taken into consideration. I believe that problem is easily solved by creating aliases for characters already tagged with their name (i.e alias seaweed_girl_(mgq!) -> wakame_(mgq!)). That way, beginning to type in the name of the monster will suggest the companion name, or replace it outright once you've clicked submit.
I am holding off on this until everyone who can give input, has given input. Drag out some more users who've played Paradox. Four players (3 to 1) is kinda decisive, but five is cooler.
For me, going for consistency would mean going for how they were all named in the original MGQ trilogy, and that's how they were named and known for all those years. I can see a sense in giving more relevance to Companion names for the characters that were introduced in Paradox, as the companion names were given around the same time as the standard, monster names, in these cases. (But still not the main name used when searching for these character in the wikis) However, for characters originated from the original trilogy, it just feels weird when a character has been consistently named and known for a certain name for many years, suddenly should have another and more obscure name as the main tag. And the aliases goes both ways. It makes more sense for obscure names to be aliased to the more known one.
