Can't do BUR for "(primarch name) -> primarch" because primarch is a general tag. (Primarch is a set in stone group)

For those unaware and concerned about accuracy "Primarch" refers to set of 21 in universe characters where being one of these characters is ITSELF the definition of being a primarch. Primarchs that are dead, horribly mutated, essentially a corpse piloted by a demon (all of which happened in lore), drawn as a normal human in some au, turned into an animal by a fanartist, etc are still primarchs because they are that character.

Point being no matter HOW it's depicted, depicting one of these characters is eligible for the primarch tag. It's like saying "if I draw jesus as a normal person should it still be tagged religion?".

Some people in the fandom feel primarchs are massively over saturated and it would be damn near to filter them out when browsing given the tag limit when searching compared to "warhammer_40k -primarch", sure, this could be done via blacklisting but this also makes it harder with no account or those who are looking for primarch pictures without doing a separate search for each of them.

Though I will concede that is also about humanity itself being over saturated to some fans and its various sub factions and how traitor primarchs shouldn't necessarily be tagged "imperium of man" etc. Someone with better lore understanding of xeno factions can explain better than me. Now, two of these characters were "erased from history" in universe to allow fans to make their oc primarchs so with the exception of fanmade version of the two missing primarchs it's essentially a missing tag for posts with the following characters.

So I wanted to do (primarch name) -> primarch (collapsed for readability)

But primarch is apperently a general tag so I get an error trying to make the BUR in the first place.

Example: the same primarch before and after being turned into a demon and an anime genderswap. The "primarch" tag is relevant in all three.

post #5868382 (Guy in the hood, first panel)
post #6744209
post #5519624

Quoting the wiki:

Major characters in the Warhammer 40,000 setting, the Primarchs were 20 beings created from scratch by the Emperor of Mankind and whose genes would be used as the basis for the biological modifications given to each legion of Space Marines. Many would die or vanish following the treason of one of their own, Horus, and the subsequent civil war. Recently, Roboute Guilliman, Primarch of the Ultramarines, has returned to the setting and is now one of its principal characters.

More detail here
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Primarch

I also wasn't sure if it would be easier on the servers to have (primarch name) imply both primarch and the related copyright or have the name of a primarch imply the primarch tag and have that imply the copyright?

BUR #20144 has been rejected.

category primarch -> character

Alternatively making "primarch" a character tag so the others can imply it without messing with the system too much.

War6t2 said:

BUR #20144 has been rejected.

category primarch -> character

Alternatively making "primarch" a character tag so the others can imply it without messing with the system too much.

If it's supposed to be for a "group" of different characters (like a species?), I don't think this should be a character tag itself.

Anju_the_Elegant_Kitsune said:

If it's supposed to be for a "group" of different characters (like a species?), I don't think this should be a character tag itself.

It'll make more sense in the attached post (god I sound so fucking passive agressive saying that, that is not the intentio I just want everyone on the same page)

We don’t do implications like that because of artistic liberty. Someone could draw an alternate universe version of a primarch character that is not a primarch, think humanization. Someone could draw a ghost version of a dead primarch. Would a ghost of a primarch still be a primarch? What if someone draws an animalization of a primarch character? Would you still want to tag that primarch?

kittey said:

We don’t do implications like that because of artistic liberty. Someone could draw an alternate universe version of a primarch character that is not a primarch, think humanization. Someone could draw a ghost version of a dead primarch. Would a ghost of a primarch still be a primarch? What if someone draws an animalization of a primarch character? Would you still want to tag that primarch?

Yes and they are in lore. I'm not sure how into 40k lore you are but the supposed spirits of dead primarchs (eg, ferrus manus in a parody animation, or the shards of magnus), primarchs that have been horribly mutated, primarchs that are essentially corpses piloted by demons, etc are all still considered primarchs by the fandom. That's what I meant with "set in stone group". The list of characters itself IS the definition of what "primarch" is so it's essentially a missing tag.

I suck at explaning but tldr: god like guy made a "litter" of demigods brothers.

The wiki is well, massive but skimming this should give anyone not familiar with lore a good idea
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Primarch#Traitors

This doesn't seem like a very useful tag, because it's entirely canon based. It's essentially just a title where tagging is concerned, with nothing to visually identify it.

blindVigil said:

This doesn't seem like a very useful tag, because it's entirely canon based. It's essentially just a title where tagging is concerned, with nothing to visually identify it.

Fair point but since it is a subcatagory it's still something fans may want to browse. Or for fan edit, eg, the genderbent primarchs.

War6t2 said:

Fair point but since it is a subcatagory it's still something fans may want to browse. Or for fan edit, eg, the genderbent primarchs.

I was going to suggest mentioning those characters are primarchs in their respective wikis so users can search for them that way, but you seem to already be doing that. I recommend adding a bit more information to the wikis, though. You should at least mention they are Warhammer 40k characters so users unfamiliar with the copyright will know if they upload those characters. It would also be good to double-check the spelling and grammar in those wikis as well.

We do have tags and pools that are used for posts with all members of a specific group (Holomyth, Game Development Department, etc.), so your primarch tag could be used for that purpose, but it would probably be hard to populate since you would need all 20 of them in the same image.

Blank_User said:

I was going to suggest mentioning those characters are primarchs in their respective wikis so users can search for them that way, but you seem to already be doing that. I recommend adding a bit more information to the wikis, though. You should at least mention they are Warhammer 40k characters so users unfamiliar with the copyright will know if they upload those characters. It would also be good to double-check the spelling and grammar in those wikis as well.

We do have tags and pools that are used for posts with all members of a specific group (Holomyth, Game Development Department, etc.), so your primarch tag could be used for that purpose, but it would probably be hard to populate since you would need all 20 of them in the same image.

Thank you for the advice. You would not need to have all of them present to be elligble for the primarch tag. Picturing a single primarch is enough. Like how a picture of jesus is still religion even though it's not every religious fiqure or how water kirby is still kirby.

I sound like such a massive twat saying "I want people who know the lore to look at this" but I really feel like my inability to explain (hence how much I edited that post) is why it's getting downvoted. I hope people who are into warhammer 40k take a look at this post.

Example: the same primarch before and after being turned into a demon and an anime genderswap. The "primarch" tag is relevant in all three.

post #5868382 (Guy in the hood, first panel)
post #6744209
post #5519624

War6t2 said:

Like how a picture of jesus is still religion even though it's not every religious fiqure

Uh, have you actually looked at Jesus and the religion tag? Only two posts are tagged with both. Which isn’t surprising, because the religion tag is used for an actual religious context. Just Jesus out on a walk with Buddha is not religious.

or how water kirby is still kirby.

Water Kirby is a variant of Kirby. If we follow that example, all the primarch characters would actually be variants of the same single character. I believe that that’s not the case.

Blank_User said:

I was going to suggest mentioning those characters are primarchs in their respective wikis so users can search for them that way, but you seem to already be doing that. I recommend adding a bit more information to the wikis, though. You should at least mention they are Warhammer 40k characters so users unfamiliar with the copyright will know if they upload those characters. It would also be good to double-check the spelling and grammar in those wikis as well.

Latching onto this, while "primarch" is generally associated with Warhammer in the West, it isn't a Warhammer-exclusive term. For example, Final Fantasy XIII, Galenth Dysley is said to be the current Primarch of the Sanctum (according to the English localization). If we're going to continue having a Primarch tag, it might be best to rename it to primarch_(warhammer)/primarch_(warhammer_40k). It's not like we don't still have group tags that don't require everyone be present for the tag to apply.

Onto War6t2's topic at hand, I understand where you're coming from in your intent, but there's no reason why you need to have it be automated on Danbooru (and thus, also not need to be changed into a character tag). Warhammer 40K is a small tag, relatively speaking, when comparing to other copyrights represented on Danbooru, and the majority of those posts will typically feature nameless characters. Assuming you've tagged Primarch on every post featuring one of them, that comes up to less than 200 posts. This is something you could easily just do manually, especially if you list the tag in the wikis of each Primarch, and in turn list each Primarch in its wiki. And on the OC Primarchs, using original (ala original primarch) should suffice for them unless the OC Primarch receives a substantial amount of fanart on Danbooru, at which point they should receive their own unique character tag (whether it be with whatever full name they have, a name with a qualifier/disambiguator featuring the OC creator's name, or just the word primarch with a qualifier/disambiguator featuring the OC creator's name, ex. primarch_(war6t2)).

War6t2 said:

Thank you for the advice. You would not need to have all of them present to be elligble for the primarch tag. Picturing a single primarch is enough. Like how a picture of jesus is still religion even though it's not every religious fiqure or how water kirby is still kirby.

I wasn't referring to how the tag is currently being used. My point was that it may be easier to justify the tag's existence if it were repurposed into a group tag (and it could be made plural to better reflect that). For group tags, we only apply them when all members of a group are present. For example, Watson Amelia would be included in all Holomyth posts because she is a member, but not all Watson Amelia posts will be tagged Holomyth because other members might not be present.

That said, we do tag all Watson Amelia posts with virtual YouTuber despite being canon tagging like primarch, but it's easier to justify because of how popular vtubers are, so people that want to, say, filter them out because they prefer 100% fictional characters or otherwise don't like them can do so. I don't believe these factors would apply to primarch as much because they simply don't have much presence on the site.

I don't actually see any harm in keeping the tag as is, but I also don't know how it might affect things as a whole, so I don't really have an opinion either way.

Blank_User said:
That said, we do tag all Watson Amelia posts with virtual YouTuber despite being canon tagging like primarch, but it's easier to justify because of how popular vtubers are, so people that want to, say, filter them out because they prefer 100% fictional characters or otherwise don't like them can do so. I don't believe these factors would apply to primarch as much because they simply don't have much presence on the site.

I don't actually see any harm in keeping the tag as is, but I also don't know how it might affect things as a whole, so I don't really have an opinion either way.

This is what I was getting at, I was just bad at explaining. Some people in the fandom feel primarchs are massively over saturated and it would be damn near to filter them out when browsing given the tag limit when searching compared to "warhammer_40k -primarch", sure, this could be done via blacklisting but this also makes it harder with no account or those who are looking for primarch pictures without doing a separate search for each of them.

Though I will concede that is also about humanity itself being over saturated to some fans and its various sub factions and how traitor primarchs shouldn't necessarily be tagged "imperium of man" etc. Someone with better lore understanding of xeno factions can explain better than me.

Damian0358 said:

Latching onto this, while "primarch" is generally associated with Warhammer in the West, it isn't a Warhammer-exclusive term. For example, Final Fantasy XIII, Galenth Dysley is said to be the current Primarch of the Sanctum (according to the English localization). If we're going to continue having a Primarch tag, it might be best to rename it to primarch_(warhammer)/primarch_(warhammer_40k). It's not like we don't still have group tags that don't require everyone be present for the tag to apply.

Onto War6t2's topic at hand, I understand where you're coming from in your intent, but there's no reason why you need to have it be automated on Danbooru (and thus, also not need to be changed into a character tag). Warhammer 40K is a small tag, relatively speaking, when comparing to other copyrights represented on Danbooru, and the majority of those posts will typically feature nameless characters. Assuming you've tagged Primarch on every post featuring one of them, that comes up to less than 200 posts. This is something you could easily just do manually, especially if you list the tag in the wikis of each Primarch, and in turn list each Primarch in its wiki. And on the OC Primarchs, using original (ala original primarch) should suffice for them unless the OC Primarch receives a substantial amount of fanart on Danbooru, at which point they should receive their own unique character tag (whether it be with whatever full name they have, a name with a qualifier/disambiguator featuring the OC creator's name, or just the word primarch with a qualifier/disambiguator featuring the OC creator's name, ex. primarch_(war6t2)).

The purpose of automating it was more-so that it's a massive personal annoyance when the tag is missing when posted elsewhere and to get some uniformity when people post the characters without tagging probably and it gets passed on to places like tbib before being tagged.

I did actually add the tag to just about every primarch post yesterday but it is a bit annoying with the whole ability to toggle between "view" and "tagging" to tag posts without opening them individually being behind the gold account paywall. Side note, but are gold account benefits like this toggle and unlimited tags when searching also given when reaching contributor level? the wiki was a bit vauge about those two.

War6t2 said:

Side note, but are gold account benefits like this toggle and unlimited tags when searching also given when reaching contributor level? the wiki was a bit vauge about those two.

Yes. Contributor includes everything from Gold.

kittey said:

Yes. Contributor includes everything from Gold.

Thank you. I'm essentially attempting to grind it for the account benefits (which gives me a strange case of imposter syndrome because I've never even had a BUR approved and feel like a noob). I see builder is lower but the definition seems much more subjective than the "roughly 750 approved posts with less than 5 percent deletion"? Like blank_user above's immense forum contribution.

I was initially planning on just making this a collection of images and such I like. Which would be hard when trying to find and tag 750 that are also appropriate for this website. I saw barapedia was the secondary account of someone and got the account level transferred as a result. From what I can tell what gets approved the fastest is...... half naked anime girls. which I have little personal interest in.

So can I make a second account and fill it with half naked anime girls and other content that is of little personal interest to me but suits danbooru until it reaches contributor or builder and have that level transferred to this "main" account here, or was that a special case with barapedia?

War6t2 said:

Thank you. I'm essentially attempting to grind it for the account benefits (which gives me a strange case of imposter syndrome because I've never even had a BUR approved and feel like a noob). I see builder is lower but the definition seems much more subjective than the "roughly 750 approved posts with less than 5 percent deletion"? Like blank_user above's immense forum contribution.

I was initially planning on just making this a collection of images and such I like. Which would be hard when trying to find and tag 750 that are also appropriate for this website. I saw barapedia was the secondary account of someone and got the account level transferred as a result. From what I can tell what gets approved the fastest is...... half naked anime girls. which I have little personal interest in.

So can I make a second account and fill it with half naked anime girls and other content that is of little personal interest to me but suits danbooru until it reaches contributor or builder and have that level transferred to this "main" account here, or was that a special case with barapedia?

You can't make another account you could get banned on both accounts.

darkimp72 said:

You can't make another account you could get banned on both accounts.

Please don't spread misinformation. You can make and freely use a second account as long as you are not using that account to break rules, harass others, or bypass your upload limit.

sabisabi said:

Please don't spread misinformation. You can make and freely use a second account as long as you are not using that account to break rules, harass others, or bypass your upload limit.

But he did say he wants to upload with that account which might go pass the upload limit.

darkimp72 said:

But he did say he wants to upload with that account which might go pass the upload limit.

And if they don't go past the limit it's fine. You just have to be vigilant about it.