About character -> copyright implications

A few people have been submitting these sorts of tag implications and so far I've been turning them down. For example, ayanami_rei -> neon_genesis_evangelion. But if everyone thinks these sorts of implications are useful, I'll start accepting them.

Hmm. I guess the main question is... are there situations where you want to tag a character and not a copyright? If we can think of even one, then no, absolutely no such implications should exist.

Either way, they should always be declined for ambiguous characters, where the same name appears in two shows. Thankfully this isn't nearly as common as you'd expect, but it's far from impossible. And it's much more likely where characters aren't known by a full family_given name. For that reason I'd say to, as a rule, decline implications for characters who are known only by one name (i.e. Kagura or Sakaki), even if at the moment they're only connected to one copyright. Even if it seems like a unique name you don't expect to repeat. It's just not worth it, because adding the proper copyright tag is not hard.

There's also the fact thats someone is much more likely to know copyright but not character than character (full name, no less) but not copyright, so the benefits of accepting these would be minor anyway.

Personally, I find it faster to check the characters of a series for missing copyright tags (ayanami_rei -neon_genesis_evangelion) when I spot one with missing a copyright tag and tag them with a tag script than to go and submit 500 implications for every full-named character of every series. But that may just be me.

The only situation where I can't bring myself to tag copyright along with character is the old saimoe semi-final sheets which are tagged with characters (for whatever reason) instead of just saimoe + saimoe_year.

If we do decide to do this, for whatever reason, I agree with jxh2154's rules.

I have been submitting some of those implications, and I can't think of a situation where you could tag something with a (well-specified) character tag, but not the copyright that character comes from. Crossovers, parodies, etc. don't invalidate it. And I find it tiresome that I have to manually add neon_genesis_evangelion after adding ayanami_rei.

Not to mention that this way the coverage of copyright tags automaitcally increases, making them more useful for broad searches of all posts related to X.

葉月 said:
I can't think of a situation where you could tag something with a (well-specified) character tag, but not the copyright that character comes from.

What about Amano Misao? She's in three different shows (one OVA and three TV shows, really, and none share continuity) and wears different clothing in each (so usually the one a particular fanart is of is obvious), but is the same character nonetheless (so shouldn't be differentiated by character tag).

Rei is a different story, since she's only in Evangelion and it's silly to tag the spinoff Eva series without tagging the original, but in general the characters shouldn't -always- imply the source series.

Boco said:
What about Amano Misao?

I guess she shouldn't be tagged with any one series (if none of them can be determined to be the "original" one), and probably a note should be made in the wiki. But cases like that are special, and in general, I don't see anything that would invalidate character -> copyright for characters that aren't Amano Misao.

Yeah, I can't think of many other examples that would fit. Characters from Tsubasa maybe? Anyway it's rare to have exceptions like that and things like Evangelion would definitely not be ones.

Boco said:
Characters from Tsubasa maybe?

I'd say that characters from Tsubasa _should_ get copyrights they're originally from, in addition to just Tsubasa. After all it's a very special production and a massive nod towards all the Clamp earlier works.

Tsubasa is something I've brought up a couple of times in different places - e.g. I was considering using kinomoto_sakura for the CCS version and sakura_hime/princess_sakura for the Tsubasa version (who isn't actually a Kinomoto at all since she is Clow's daughter in that continuity). Don't remember ever getting much feedback on this though.

One issue I have is that once we start setting these up, people will grow an expectation that they only have to tag the character and not the copyright, even if an implication might not be set up. I'd rather people not have that sort of expectation.

wanchan said:
Tsubasa is something I've brought up a couple of times in different places - e.g. I was considering using kinomoto_sakura for the CCS version and sakura_hime/princess_sakura for the Tsubasa version (who isn't actually a Kinomoto at all since she is Clow's daughter in that continuity). Don't remember ever getting much feedback on this though.

This may be off topic, but this post brings up something I had been thinking about before. Is there any elegant way to link the characters from Mai_Hime and Mai_Otome? I mean they are basically the same characters with the same personalities, but they have different names and different tags.

albert said: I'd rather people not have that sort of expectation.

Agreed. I think I can definitely say to nix the concept. Keep rejecting these implications, because they're just not necessary.

Shinjidude said: This may be off topic, but this post brings up something I had been thinking about before. Is there any elegant way to link the characters from Mai_Hime and Mai_Otome?

I've been wanting to do the same thing. It's just the idea of doubling the number of character tags on every Otome image that puts me off the idea.

There really is no elegant way to do it, I think. Not unless we get conditional aliases (if mai_hime tag is present, alias otome_name to hime_name; if mai_otome tag is present, alias hime_name to otome_name).

But even that is... eh. I don't like it much.

Shinjidude said:
This may be off topic, but this post brings up something I had been thinking about before. Is there any elegant way to link the characters from Mai_Hime and Mai_Otome? I mean they are basically the same characters with the same personalities, but they have different names and different tags.

I'd put cross-links in the wiki.

We could also try having a "see also" facility: when you search for a tag, if it has a special message attached, display it at the top of the page. This message would be edited manually, and only by moderators and admins (since it'd be easily abused), and it could contain links to other tags.
Then, "kuga_natsuki" could have the associated message "See also: natsuki_kruger", etc.
It could also be used for other things, for instance "seifuku" => "You probably meant serafuku" (from a recent conversation).

albert said:
One issue I have is that once we start setting these up, people will grow an expectation that they only have to tag the character and not the copyright, even if an implication might not be set up. I'd rather people not have that sort of expectation.

I dunno about others, but I always check the results of my tagging. And if there's an implication I expected that wasn't there, I just go and submit it.

Shinjidude said:
This may be off topic, but this post brings up something I had been thinking about before. Is there any elegant way to link the characters from Mai_Hime and Mai_Otome? I mean they are basically the same characters with the same personalities, but they have different names and different tags.

I don't know if I agree with this.

at least on the "same personality" aspect.