Sunrise/sunset/evening/dawn/dusk/twilight

BUR #16860 has been rejected.

create alias sunrise -> twilight
create alias sunset -> twilight
create alias evening -> twilight
create alias dawn -> twilight
create alias dusk -> twilight

Let's play a game. Go to ~sunrise ~sunset ~evening ~dawn ~dusk ~twilight and correctly guess the tags. I'm willing to bet many of you will get them mostly wrong because all the posts look mostly the same.

There is topic #8177 from 13 years ago topic #13957 from 6 years ago which talks about clarifying the tags, but the wikis for those tags have not changed since the second thread and the distinction between them when searching is still not clear. If we decide to keep these tags, the wikis need a clearer definition like in forum #130295 and the tags to be cleaned up and regularly checked to make sure they're used correctly. Alternatively, we can follow the suggestion in forum #90317 and alias dawn, dusk, and evening to twilight, then decide what we want to do with sunrise and sunset.

I picked twilight because the wiki doesn't make a distinction between dawn or dusk, so it can be used at either time of day. I'm aware twilight has a specific scientific definition, but here at Danbooru we have our own alternative facts.

You may have noticed I didn't include morning. I think it's a good tag because it covers posts like post #5969177 for someone waking up, and post #5970099 for eating breakfast. But it still has the problem with sunrise/sunset/etc. like in post #6088570 where it's not obvious what time of day it is. If the BUR goes through, I plan on cleaning this tag up. I haven't found similar posts in evening, so that goes in the BUR.

I'm gonna be that guy and pedantically say "well akshully that girl could be waking up in the evening, and the other one could be eating at noon". all of these time of day tags other than the most objective day and night can be decided just as accurately by rolling a twenty-sided die than scrutinizing the image for hours and consulting various sky professionals. those two examples are better described as traditionally a "morning activity" or "morning food", which again I know is pedantic but morning describes a (clearly hard to differentiate) time of day, not actions.

tl;dr imo you should throw morning in there.

BobTheBuilder_v1 said:

I'm gonna be that guy and pedantically say "well akshully that girl could be waking up in the evening, and the other one could be eating at noon". all of these time of day tags other than the most objective day and night can be decided just as accurately by rolling a twenty-sided die than scrutinizing the image for hours and consulting various sky professionals. those two examples are better described as traditionally a "morning activity" or "morning food", which again I know is pedantic but morning describes a (clearly hard to differentiate) time of day, not actions.

tl;dr imo you should throw morning in there.

That's why I think the morning tag should be used for things like as you describe "morning activity" and "morning food". If you look between morning and ~sunrise ~sunset ~evening ~dawn ~dusk ~twilight, you will get two very different results, so they shouldn't be aliased. post #6014587 for example should not be tagged twilight.

post #5969177 could be someone waking up at noon, and post #5970099 could be someone eating breakfast at noon, but people searching the morning tag are likely expecting to see those posts. If you still think otherwise, then make a separate BUR.

I will argue that sunset is pretty specific as is and does it's job well. It's easy to look at post #6289961 and see that it's meant to depict the sun setting based on the colors and lighting. Same can be said for =, say, post #6287302, where the sun is quite literally setting in the image.

As for the other tags, most specifically dawn and dusk, this would be a very fitting tag as there's not really a reason to differentiate them.

Sunrise and sunset are easy to distinguish using context clues. They are by definition not twilight, which occurs before and after sunset. I think it's fair to alias dawn and dusk to twilight and use it for pics where the sun cannot be seen rising or setting. But I think evening is useful for tagging pics where the sun is clearly lower than at noon (from the lighting) but far from setting (so it's in the same boat as morning in that human activities tell you which time it is).

BUR #16880 has been rejected.

create alias dawn -> twilight
create alias dusk -> twilight

As above. I think it's generally agreed that dawn and dusk should at minimum be aliased to twilight. I don't have issues with the sunset tag, but the sunrise wiki needs additional clarification on how to use it. I've looked at more posts in evening and can see the use for it in posts where the sky isn't visible, but context can show that it's evening.

sunset ~twilight ~dusk ~dawn has 1455 posts and sunrise ~twilight ~dusk ~dawn has 133, which are misstags because the sun shouldn't be visible in twilight, dusk, and dawn, but should be visible to qualify for sunrise and sunset if I'm understanding these tags correctly. If this BUR is approved instead, then these need to be cleaned up.

honestly, there will never be an easy and consistent way to correctly distinguish between the two, even if you take into account contextual details like SSJG said. just read this article, look at the sherlock deduction needed to tell truly which it is, and tell me that's practical for danbooru needs.

I think most people, myself included, associate sunsets with orange/red-heavy hues and sunrises with white/yellow ones. of course this is a generalization and will not be true 100% of the time, but it's probably as good as we can get for something with such subjectivity. If we use solely context cues to determine post #5956935... it could still be both, either she's the first one at the shrine early in the morning or she's the last one late in the evening. other images like post #6287302 which are probably a sunset based on the sky color have nothing concrete proving it isn't a sunrise. take a look at this ridiculously mixed bag to prove it.

if people agree with judging sunrise and sunset based on color, I can sneak it into the wiki.

BobTheBuilder_v1 said:

honestly, there will never be an easy and consistent way to correctly distinguish between the two, even if you take into account contextual details like SSJG said. just read this article, look at the sherlock deduction needed to tell truly which it is, and tell me that's practical for danbooru needs.

I think most people, myself included, associate sunsets with orange/red-heavy hues and sunrises with white/yellow ones. of course this is a generalization and will not be true 100% of the time, but it's probably as good as we can get for something with such subjectivity. If we use solely context cues to determine post #5956935... it could still be both, either she's the first one at the shrine early in the morning or she's the last one late in the evening. other images like post #6287302 which are probably a sunset based on the sky color have nothing concrete proving it isn't a sunrise. take a look at this ridiculously mixed bag to prove it.

if people agree with judging sunrise and sunset based on color, I can sneak it into the wiki.

I'm on board with that separation

This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 45 days.

The bulk update request #16860 (forum #241595) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 45 days.

The bulk update request #16880 (forum #241688) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.