The Vtuber Alternate Costume Tagging Proposal

BUR #16621 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

rename watson_amelia_(3rd_costume) -> temporary_tag
rename watson_amelia_(4th_costume) -> watson_amelia_(3rd_costume)
rename temporary_tag -> watson_amelia_(4th_costume)

mixed em up lmao oops

The bulk update request #16621 (forum #240379) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #16643 has been rejected.

rename hoshimachi_suisei_(7th_costume) -> hoshimachi_suisei_(shout_in_crisis)

Should we be suggesting names in this thread, or is the idea to tag everything with numbers first to avoid arguments?

The idea is to tag everything with numbers first to avoid arguments, yeah, though we do seem to have informally agreed for the most part that concert costumes should have the concert as the modifier. It would probably be better to save it for later though, probably with a BUR that deals with all the concert costume tags at once (since that ain't the only one that's currently under the nth costume format). For the remaining costumes, names could be suggested here, but I'd imagine there'd be a preference for universal qualifiers above all else (so like having the New Years costumes be new years, etc).

But above all else, let's concentrate on making sure the tags that have been made so far are actually properly tagged. No leaving any stones unturned and all.

What about Gawr Gura's official dakimakura costume? (post #6077950)
Does it need its own tag?

BUR #16683 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

now for the character implications

Can't do it with an implication but should mass update all of these to have official alternate costume. Would particularly make it easier to find images with the untagged 1st costume

LQ said:

Can't do it with an implication but should mass update all of these to have official alternate costume. Would particularly make it easier to find images with the untagged 1st costume

It makes more sense for us to have a tag for the first costume than trying to search for it by excluding 7 other tags.

nonamethanks said:

It makes more sense for us to have a tag for the first costume than trying to search for it by excluding 7 other tags.

Do you really want to set a precedent that'll spread back across the entire rest of the site?

Damian0358 said:

Do you really want to set a precedent that'll spread back across the entire rest of the site?

What precedent? We already tag first ascensions with fate, and in this case it would just mean one more tag instead of excluding official alternate costume every time you want to see a specific attire, which frankly sucks ass as a solution.
Just look at the results under hoshimachi_suisei -official_alternate_costume and tell me that's a valid alternative. There's like 3 people in the entire site who care enough to use that tag.
The average user doesn't think "to see a character's attire I'm going to remove all of their other attires", that's not how people normally browse this site. And they shouldn't have to rely on the same handful of builders to do their weekly pass at mass adding that tag either to get reliable results.

I really hate official alternate costume, it's a stupid solution. We somehow gaslit ourselves into thinking that "a bunch of gold+ users doing weekly passes at 6+tag searches in order to mass add this tag so that it can be used as a proxy for multi-character exclusion so that members can actually find a single costume" is a good solution, instead of just tagging the costume itself.
Imagine if we didn't have a tag for standing and we just told people to search for 1girl -sitting_or_kneeling_or_lying. It's retarded. Just tag the actual thing.
This isn't even like anime where a character has a single default outfit, vtubers use tons of different costumes every stream and it's not rare for them to abandon their first costume for months at a time.

nonamethanks said:

I really hate official alternate costume, it's a stupid solution. We somehow gaslit ourselves into thinking that "a bunch of gold+ users doing weekly passes at 6+tag searches in order to mass add this tag so that it can be used as a proxy for multi-character exclusion so that members can actually find a single costume" is a good solution, instead of just tagging the costume itself.
This isn't even like anime where a character has a single default outfit, vtubers use tons of different costumes every stream and it's not rare for them to abandon their first costume for months at a time.

Just look at the results under hoshimachi_suisei -official_alternate_costume and tell me that's a valid alternative. There's like 3 people in the entire site who care enough to use that tag.
The average user doesn't think "to see a character's attire I'm going to remove all of their other attires", that's not how people normally browse this site. And they shouldn't have to rely on the same handful of builders to do their weekly pass at mass adding that tag either to get reliable results.

Since when was that the intended purpose of official alternate costume? The only reason that tag exists is because people kept tagging official stuff with alternate costume. Anyone trying to do a -[chartag] -official_alternate_costume would inevitably get disappointed as a result, even if it were properly tagged, and anyone who thinks that's a valid alternative is an idiot.

nonamethanks said:

What precedent? We already tag first ascensions with fate, and in this case it would just mean one more tag instead of excluding official alternate costume every time you want to see a specific attire, which frankly sucks ass as a solution.

Imagine if we didn't have a tag for standing and we just told people to search for 1girl -sitting_or_kneeling_or_lying. It's retarded. Just tag the actual thing.

I thought Fate wasn't supposed to be looked at for precedent because of the amount of unique bullshit we have to deal with its tagging.

And what I was referring to is the fact that this will likely inspire Azur Lane, Kantai Collection, etc. taggers to start tagging on masse (default) or similar tags. Hundreds new tags whose only purpose is to search for the default outfit, when for the characters their default outfit (or derivatives thereof) make up the overwhelming majority of their posts on-site, alongside them just being in the nude. The whole reason why skin tags exist is because they inherently make up less of the characters' posts. And that'll lead to a further domino effect, like folks pitching we make skin tags for characters' crossover appearances despite the character looking the same as they always do.

If you want that to happen, you can strike your gavel down here now and have it be set in stone, have (1st costume) proliferate and give further justification to the creation of a costume tag category.

Damian0358 said:

Since when was that the intended purpose of official alternate costume?

I mean how it's being proposed as a convoluted alternative now instead of just creating a tag for the costume.

The choices are these:

• use first_costume
• use character_name -second_costume -third_costume -fourth_costume -fifth_costume -sixth_costume -seventh_costume
• wait for a month for a specific user to tag the latest hundreds of posts of a popular character with official alternate costume so that character_name -official_alternate_costume works, and then you get tons of naked porn and random bikini in the middle

Do you see how two out of three choices are not choices at all?

Having specific tags for base skins is not an ideal solution, I know that, but our system was not designed to deal with characters with tons of relevant costumes like gachas and vtubers. Danbooru predates all of that. If we have to create a costume category so be it (if evazion ever feels like it), but in the meanwhile we shouldn't have to stab our own feet in an attempt to preserve a broken status quo that helps nobody.

nonamethanks said:

Having specific tags for base skins is not an ideal solution, I know that, but our system was not designed to deal with characters with tons of relevant costumes like gachas and vtubers. Danbooru predates all of that. If we have to create a costume category so be it (if evazion ever feels like it), but in the meanwhile we shouldn't have to stab our own feet in an attempt to preserve a broken status quo that helps nobody.

It's going to be fun seeing all this eventually bleed over into the rest of official alternate costume, resulting in shit like suzumiya_haruhi_(default) & suzumiya_haruhi_(remote_island_syndrome), and a return of the previously-nuked Pokemon episode tags in topic #19076 in skin form.

But you've heard him here first folks, start populating (1st costume).

Probably beating a dead horse, but...
Even if official alternate costume worked, excluding it wouldn't.
One picture can contain the "default" outfit along with alternate. For example: post #5725313, post #6070779, post #5604390.
One picture can contain a character in their default outfit and another character in an alternate. For example: post #5573871, post #4536565.

If it's a thing you'd want to search for the presence of, it should have a positive tag. Overtagging is usually better than undertagging. What's wrong with having a costume/outfit tag category? One might hope people would have the common sense not to create superfluous tags for characters that have a single/primary canon outfit, but even if they don't, having some ugly extra tags is better than having unsearchable things, isn't it?

The bulk update request #16683 (forum #240635) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #16708 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create implication tsunomaki_watame_(1st_costume) -> tsunomaki_watame
create implication tsunomaki_watame_(2nd_costume) -> tsunomaki_watame
create implication tsunomaki_watame_(3rd_costume) -> tsunomaki_watame
create implication tsunomaki_watame_(4th_costume) -> tsunomaki_watame
create implication tsunomaki_watame_(5th_costume) -> tsunomaki_watame

I'll be posting implications for the vtubers I've finished gardening here

BUR #16710 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create implication sister_cleaire_(1st_costume) -> sister_cleaire
create implication sister_cleaire_(2nd_costume) -> sister_cleaire
create implication sister_cleaire_(3rd_costume) -> sister_cleaire
create implication sister_cleaire_(4th_costume) -> sister_cleaire
create implication sister_cleaire_(5th_costume) -> sister_cleaire
create implication sister_cleaire_(7th_costume) -> sister_cleaire
create implication sister_cleaire_(8th_costume) -> sister_cleaire
create implication sister_cleaire_(9th_costume) -> sister_cleaire
create implication sister_cleaire_(10th_costume) -> sister_cleaire

Sister Claire, preemptively adding her new years and anniversary outfit even if they don't have any posts yet

BUR #16721 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

Since we're starting to do the implications, I'm leaving the Nijisanji EN ones to go first since we've basically finished gardening them. Also including ex-ID's Mika since the gardening on her altcostume tag's also done.

Also P.S.: Do we really need to have a separate chartag for default outfits? (since I saw a handful of Elira works being tagged with a "1st costume" chartag) Just because NNT suggested it up top as a choice:

The choices are these:

• use first_costume

...doesn't mean we can start doing that, not when we still haven't finished gardening a lot of these altcostume chartags.

ArcieA said:

Also P.S.: Do we really need to have a separate chartag for default outfits? (since I saw a handful of Elira works being tagged with a "1st costume" chartag) Just because NNT suggested it up top as a choice:

Just look at the Sister Cleaire BUR above as an example. That's ten different outfits. Not even gold members can exclude all of those at once.

im not totally opposed to the default costume being a tag, but in most cases it way outstrips the alternate costumes

im also not entirely convinced that this won't end terribly for applying it to gachas or even other video games, ending up with something like hakurei_reimu_(forbidden_scrollery)