Posted under General
Honestly, with every single race swap art we got such an, ehem active wars in the comments section of said post(s). Instead of adding each new artists to blacklist, can we create a new tag so it will prevent past, present and future arts from appearing on the users' browsing list?
There's alternate skin color already.
Individual said:
There's alternate skin color already.
While I'm pretty neutral on this, there are other racial features besides skin color. Alternate skin color also wouldn't cover situations where a light-skinned anime girl is race swapped into another light-skinned race, but would cover tans.
I'm not totally convinced this tag wouldn't be a problem for various other reasons, though.
Individual said:
There's alternate skin color already.
A race swap tag would encompass things other than skin color alone, especially since there's a fair amount of fantasy skin colors and de-fantasy-ing purple girls in that tag.
Things like those Nagatoro pics would, I think, be better tagged with a single succinct race swap or alternate ethnicity rather than things like post #6110739 getting three other alternate tags. Especially when skin color is kiiiinda debatable for a lot of similar Nagatoro pics. It's why she gets changed so much in the first place.
...weird way OP is asking for it but whatever.
blindVigil said:
I'm not totally convinced this tag wouldn't be a problem for various other reasons, though.
Eh, people are gonna complain in the comments and flag then either way.
Updated
Veraducks said:
Eh, people are gonna complain in the comments and flag then either way.
I was more thinking about expecting users to understand that just making a character's skin darker, which could just be a tan, or giving a character dreads, without changing anything else about them wouldn't necessarily count as a race swap. On the flipside there's expecting people to recognize and identify common, sometimes subtle, sometimes stereotypical, racial traits of various races, such as differences in facial features.
Just feels like an easy tag to misuse.
I'm neutral for the creation of a new tag, but I'm sure this topic was motivated by post #6241455, where blacklisting the tag would've solved OP's problem - I know it's too much, but anyway.
Individual said:
I'm neutral for the creation of a new tag, but I'm sure this topic was motivated by post #6241455, where blacklisting the tag would've solved OP's problem.
And would have blacklisted 1.6k posts of tans, or lack thereof, that definitely aren't race swaps.
I think the state of pool #1851 shows that people have a good idea of what constitutes representing a real-life race vs. a tan ethnic Japanese person or nonspecific person with dark skin. We could probably garden a tag to meet a similar standard.
I support using alternate ethnicity mainly for pool #5073 (Gensokyo USA), which is the clearest example in my mind of an artist changing characters' ethnicities in a way that can't actually be covered by any existing tags. I believe the artist confirmed some swaps, like Sanae being Jewish, that don't measurably change the characters' designs; in fact, the characters who explicitly remain Asian are drawn to look very Asian.
Of course, the whole issue with people posting the N-word and "we wuz phoenixez n shiet" on quinnonimp's posts is literally just racism. We need to crack down on that issue separately.
First, the existence of alternate race makes the name race swap completely unusable for such a purpose; if the site's use of the word "race" is that of a fantasy RPG logic rather than the real-life ethnic frame (which i support), then any additional tag which suddenly goes against that logic would create a mess.
second, if your intention is to give racists the option to blacklist artists/tags on which they would otherwise go loose, you'll need to get your expectations lower, because most of them wont do any blacklisting, and a few of those who would blacklist would still go out of their way to de-activate the blacklist and go loose anyway, and there's probably more nonsensical behaviors to expect that i'm not thinking about. When political stuff is involved, don't expect the average user to behave rationally or decently, especially when it's about minorities being involved with their favorite characters.
third: the line for what is actual ethnic-swapping or not will inevitably be nebulous, because vast majority of styles (especially anime styles) don't have nearly enough subtlety of features to differenciate a filipina girl from a tanned japanese girl or a black girl with curly hair from an idian girl with curly hair. And it's not rare at all for artists who do that kind of swapping on characters to be more specific than just a straight-forward white <-> black
Of course you can choose to limit the tag to clear-cut cases and garden out the more debatable cases, but meh.
Mayhem-Chan said:
First, the existence of alternate race makes the name race swap completely unusable for such a purpose; if the site's use of the word "race" is that of a fantasy RPG logic rather than the real-life ethnic frame (which i support), then any additional tag which suddenly goes against that logic would create a mess.
Technically, in terms of tags which explicitly reference race, alternate race is the outlier, when compared to interracial and racism, which aligns more with current uses of race (even if, for instance, the latter says it is used for both real and fantasy races). The race tags we have for MMORPGs or for stuff like Splatoon aren't even consistently tagged with alternate race when a character of a different species is tagged with it, as seen with the wiki-less alternate species (which itself is consistent with interspecies).
