The Vtuber Alternate Costume Tagging Proposal

BUR #15807 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

Gachas have character tags for their costumes, so its time for vtubers to follow suit. The names of the costumes can be changed so try not to focus on the specifics for now. Right now, this is just Sugar Lyric and Holo En because jesus christ theres a lotta vtubers and i only have so much attention span.

Why do this? Because Inaba Haneru has eight fucking costumes and you're out of your mind if you think im gonna put all of them in the wiki.

We also do this with kizuna_ai* already.

I have no strong feelings on this issue one way or the other, but people have been complaining about the ballooning size of wikis for popular VTubers (in the same fashion as popular idol or gacha characters [read: Idolmaster and KanColle]), and this would technically be a way to deal with that to an extent.

Not a fan of this, but yeah, vtuber wikis are getting out of hand. Wish we had a better/prettier way to handle this, tho.

The only point of contention IMO would be Hololive New Year's costumes, since even officially they seem to be in a "they don't count as new costumes" situation so maybe we should keep them separate.

Yeah, it sucks when we have a billion chartags for a single character, but we don't really have a better system. alternate costume & co are pretty much useless to search for specific designs unless you're plat+.

A costume tag category sounds less and less like a bad idea.

The bulk update request #15807 (forum #236254) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

Ok, since this went without much discussion and we are already starting to get inconsistencies here are my main 2 questions (one of which went unanswered ye the BUR went through anyway)

1. Are we gonna call them ouftit or costumes? Yes I know that the that is official_alternate_costume but they are meant to be the vtubers' regular clothes and not costumes and both people and official marketing refer to them as "outfits"
2. How are we New Year's and special event outfits that the vtubers don't use for regular streams (e.g. Hololive's special anniversary 3D outfits), are we just gonna tag them chronologically in order of release?

Mexiguy said:

1. Are we gonna call them ouftit or costumes? Yes I know that the that is official_alternate_costume but they are meant to be the vtubers' regular clothes and not costumes and both people and official marketing refer to them as "outfits"

Given the BUR went with costumes, let's stick with costumes for now. Already dealt with the inconsistencies that were emerging from that earlier, so the only ones remaining is that some of the tags don't say nth_costume, which neatly leads into the second question.

2. How are we New Year's and special event outfits that the vtubers don't use for regular streams (e.g. Hololive's special anniversary 3D outfits), are we just gonna tag them chronologically in order of release?

Well, the impression I've gotten checking other fan wikis, for the New Years outfits, those are included in the count, but you do have a valid point when it comes to the irregular outfits. The mindset I think works best for this initial period, following on from what Fuuf said in the original BUR, "The names of the costumes can be changed so try not to focus on the specifics for now." For the time being, as we actually get to tagging the outfits and not just, you know, have tags that only have one to three posts in them, it might be best to go with a chronological approach, but we'll eventually have to give them actual names (and a few tags made over the course of the last day have done so, what with two new (old_design) tags and a tag for Morinaka Kazaki's oldest form).

I mentioned this on Discord, but I'd rather have this kinds of things worked outearly on instead of doing the usual danbooru thing of burying our heads in the sand and ending up a few months down the line with a massive BUR that stalls and gets automatically rejected because no one can come to an agreement and has to be resolved by evazion.

Mexiguy said:

I mentioned this on Discord, but I'd rather have this kinds of things worked out early on instead of doing the usual danbooru thing of burying our heads in the sand and ending up a few months down the line with a massive BUR that stalls and gets automatically rejected because no one can come to an agreement and has to be resolved by evazion.

Well, I do agree with you on working things out early, since that'll ensure standardization, and "agreeing to stick with the BUR's format to ensure consistency, and going ahead with actually tagging so that we don't have 67 different tags for the same outfit" sounds like working things out early to me.

As you said on Discord, "we'll have fun when the inevitable 50+tag BUR inevitably stalls next year because 1 person doesn't agree with the name of a particular outift," and in turn, I replied, "And you don't think we'd end up stalling now because 1 person doesn't agree with the name of a particular outfit?" - and you replied with "tru".

1. Are we gonna call them ouftit or costumes? Yes I know that the that is official_alternate_costume but they are meant to be the vtubers' regular clothes and not costumes and both people and official marketing refer to them as "outfits"

i went with costume since thats what 774 inc calls em

2. How are we New Year's and special event outfits that the vtubers don't use for regular streams (e.g. Hololive's special anniversary 3D outfits), are we just gonna tag them chronologically in order of release?

for individual costumes im think we tag em with this nth costume setup, for shared costumes we tag em general like the kourindou tengu costume

I actually have a question of my own, is this gonna apply to other VTubers who have multiple modles/outfits as well?

TheGamingRodent said:

I actually have a question of my own, is this gonna apply to other VTubers who have multiple modles/outfits as well?

Well, for AZKi, who has four different models, each follows the nth costume format we've got going for the moment. However, don't just go and suddenly make costume tags for them. We should concentrate on tag gardening those costume tags that already exist, because if there's anything people hate more than the proliferation of costume tags, it's undertagged costume tags.

Like, I'm searching *costume) in the Tag search, and I'm seeing tons of costume tags that have less than 10 posts in them, because whoever created them initially just cared to get them tagged, and doesn't care what happens to them otherwise. Similarly, if you plan on making any more costume tags, do your due diligence and make sure to actually research to see whether you're tagging costumes in chronological order (especially with older VTubers - looking at you Nijisanji JP and Tokino Sora). I've had to correct several of those less-than-10-posts costume tags so far because the person who initially tagged them didn't do their goddamn research.

Damian0358 said:

Well, for AZKi, who has four different models, each follows the nth costume format we've got going for the moment. However, don't just go and suddenly make costume tags for them. We should concentrate on tag gardening those costume tags that already exist, because if there's anything people hate more than the proliferation of costume tags, it's undertagged costume tags.

Like, I'm searching *costume) in the Tag search, and I'm seeing tons of costume tags that have less than 10 posts in them, because whoever created them initially just cared to get them tagged, and doesn't care what happens to them otherwise. Similarly, if you plan on making any more costume tags, do your due diligence and make sure to actually research to see whether you're tagging costumes in chronological order (especially with older VTubers - looking at you Nijisanji JP and Tokino Sora). I've had to correct several of those less-than-10-posts costume tags so far because the person who initially tagged them didn't do their goddamn research.

So, for example then, if making a tag for Ironmouse's latest model being her race queen outfit, should I call it "Ironmouse (race queen)" or "Ironmouse [insert number here] costume")?

For now, we're generally following the "x costume" format with some exceptions (specifically the original designs, outfits that have actual alternate names for reasons, and Morinaka Kazaki (adult) and all other cases that would involve aged up or aged down versions). Once we've done tag-gardening, the plan (if I'm not mistaken) would be to rename them to the custom descriptor names (or alias the existing "x costume" tags to the custom names if they have 200+ posts by that time).

TheGamingRodent said:

So, for example then, if making a tag for Ironmouse's latest model, being her race queen outfit, should I call it "Ironmouse (race queen)" or "Ironmouse [insert number here] costume")?

Well, ArcieA and Mexiguy have both made select costume tags with non-numbered qualifiers, such as Shirakami Fubuki (FubukiTEK) or the named Hololive Summer 2019 swimsuits in the former's case, or Minato Aqua's unique concert outfits being qualified with the concerts in question in the latter's case (not counting specific exceptions like Arcie mentions, like old designs and age variants), so you could go ahead and tag it as the former. What matters more is that you just keep chronology in mind at all times, even when doing non-numbered qualifiers, so even if you go with the non-numbered "Ironmouse (race queen)", its place is acknowledged when compared to numbered tags (ex. Fubuki's costume tags are currently 'Beachside Fox', 3rd, 4th, 'FubukiTEK' and 6th, and Aqua's are currently 2nd, 3rd, 'AQUA IRO SUPER DREAM', 5th, 'Aqua iro in Wonder Land' and 7th).

I know Arcie plans to eventually push a BUR that changes the qualifiers for the non-named Hololive Summer 2019 swimsuits from nth costume to hololive summer 2019, to more clearly disambiguate them from the standardized Hololive Summer 2022 swimsuits, but that's for after everything is said and done for actually tagging them, because going with nth costume for the time being, as mentioned earlier, allows us to save the arguing over specific tag names for later.

Damian0358 said:

Well, ArcieA and Mexiguy have both made select costume tags with non-numbered qualifiers, such as Shirakami Fubuki (FubukiTEK) or the named Hololive Summer 2019 swimsuits in the former's case, or Minato Aqua's unique concert outfits being qualified with the concerts in question in the latter's case (not counting specific exceptions like Arcie mentions, like old designs and age variants), so you could go ahead and tag it as the former. What matters more is that you just keep chronology in mind at all times, even when doing non-numbered qualifiers, so even if you go with the non-numbered "Ironmouse (race queen)", its place is acknowledged when compared to numbered tags (ex. Fubuki's costume tags are currently 'Beachside Fox', 3rd, 4th, 'FubukiTEK' and 6th, and Aqua's are currently 2nd, 3rd, 'AQUA IRO SUPER DREAM', 5th, 'Aqua iro in Wonder Land' and 7th).

I know Arcie plans to eventually push a BUR that changes the qualifiers for the non-named Hololive Summer 2019 swimsuits from nth costume to hololive summer 2019, to more clearly disambiguate them from the standardized Hololive Summer 2022 swimsuits, but that's for after everything is said and done for actually tagging them, because going with nth costume for the time being, as mentioned earlier, allows us to save the arguing over specific tag names for later.

Alright, I think just for VShojo members (and previous members) who name their costumes/models I'll go with the latter and name them as such
(ex: Silvervale's current model being her kimono is called "Sakura Goddess"), for their other models I'll go with the number system (like Ironmouse default/original)

The Amelia Watson tags are incorrect. The outfit tagged watson_amelia_(3rd_costume) is actual her 4th costume and vise versa. Is there any way to get those tags swapped?

Source: https://hololive.wiki/wiki/Watson_Amelia#Media