Renaming Newhalf

Hello, I registered an account just to give my opinion of this. I'm someone that's been following this stuff since the days of navigating Japanese webrings and looking at the URLs at the bottom for hints as where links lead to, so this is something I have a strong opinion about.
This whole thing is essentially a generation gap combined with a cultural one.
You've got the old guard (like me) that strongly feel that futanari and newhalf have strict meanings in Japanese and they should be respected. However, there's the newer people that, over time, have created a separate definition through the expected general obviousness of outsiders.
To most Westerners today, including artists, "futanari" encapsulates anything feminine with a penis. Yes, this has and will continue to cause issues with other tags like crossdressing or shota.
Due to Westerners rarely drawing dickgirls with vaginas (and this has been the case since the dtiberius days) anyone that looked exclusively at Western art would, if anything, expect a new definition for a woman with a vagina under their penis. I feel that this is exactly what happened with what Tarage mentioned above. That artist's definition of futanari is different from the one that Japan has and that people like myself have subscribed to for two decades. Simply put, the artist is wrong for using that word. We had Western inventions like like "dickgirl" and "trap" that were handy in these situations, but this is another generation gap where new people want to change how things are done. However, as they described it as a futanari I definitely would not give it a 1boy tag since these people do at least understand that a futanari is a girl.
There was a site a couple years ago, I think it was one of the rule34 ones, that made an announcement that they "give up" and they would no longer enforce the difference between futanari and newhalf because correcting the ignorant masses was simply too much work. Personally, I've always seen danbooru as a site that's curated and higher quality than most and I expect it to have higher standards. For this reason I think the newhalf tag must stay and ignorance should be corrected instead of tolerated. It can't be "futanari without vagina" because that doesn't make any sense.

mongirlfan said:

It already works like that currently (unless you mean otoko no ko as well). This forum's BUR would fully expand the futanari tag to posts where the dickgirl has no pussy, while (at least temporarily) retiring the newhalf tag.

Futanari already covers all cases of "girl with dick" regardless of vagina status because newhalf implicates it.

blindVigil said:

Futanari already covers all cases of "girl with dick" regardless of vagina status because newhalf implicates it.

Yeah I know. I guess I wasn't very clear, but I meant that futanari would take over the newhalf tag.

Talulah said:

Yeah the only person vandalising here is you. Fuck off before you get banned.

You're a lovely person. Perhaps the site could use less of you.

Regardless of what the artist says, there's no vagina, no breasts, no indication that anything involved is female aside from the clothes. Please remember the old art piece "The Treachery of Images". Ceci n'est pas une pipe. This is not a futanari.

It's real simple: Is there a vagina? Futanari. No vagina? Newhalf, or Transgender, or whatever you want to call it, I don't care. Futanari do not exist in real life, so shoving things that do exist into it makes zero sense.

banana_jellyfish said:

Hello, I registered an account just to give my opinion of this. I'm someone that's been following this stuff since the days of navigating Japanese webrings and looking at the URLs at the bottom for hints as where links lead to, so this is something I have a strong opinion about.
This whole thing is essentially a generation gap combined with a cultural one.
You've got the old guard (like me) that strongly feel that futanari and newhalf have strict meanings in Japanese and they should be respected. However, there's the newer people that, over time, have created a separate definition through the expected general obviousness of outsiders.
To most Westerners today, including artists, "futanari" encapsulates anything feminine with a penis. Yes, this has and will continue to cause issues with other tags like crossdressing or shota.
Due to Westerners rarely drawing dickgirls with vaginas (and this has been the case since the dtiberius days) anyone that looked exclusively at Western art would, if anything, expect a new definition for a woman with a vagina under their penis. I feel that this is exactly what happened with what Tarage mentioned above. That artist's definition of futanari is different from the one that Japan has and that people like myself have subscribed to for two decades. Simply put, the artist is wrong for using that word. We had Western inventions like like "dickgirl" and "trap" that were handy in these situations, but this is another generation gap where new people want to change how things are done. However, as they described it as a futanari I definitely would not give it a 1boy tag since these people do at least understand that a futanari is a girl.
There was a site a couple years ago, I think it was one of the rule34 ones, that made an announcement that they "give up" and they would no longer enforce the difference between futanari and newhalf because correcting the ignorant masses was simply too much work. Personally, I've always seen danbooru as a site that's curated and higher quality than most and I expect it to have higher standards. For this reason I think the newhalf tag must stay and ignorance should be corrected instead of tolerated. It can't be "futanari without vagina" because that doesn't make any sense.

I don't have much of a horse in this race (I'm okay with any outcome the rename has, and satisfied with newhalf implying futa), but I'm going to ask you a question because I'm interested in your opinion.

Let's say you have a pic that shows a female character magically growing a penis and having her pussy replaced by testicles. What would be the correct way to tag her? Under strict classical definitions, she can't be a futanari because she's not a hermaphrodite with both sets of genitals, but she can't be a newhalf either as she's not a male-to-female transsexual either.

This is something that always comes to my mind whenever the futanari vs newhalf debate comes up. Should a distinction be made between a male who went through surgery and a female who grew dick and balls when they look visually identical? A few years back, this site decided that the answer was no, for practicality purposes, but I'm interested in an internet oldfag opinion on this specific scenario.

Oh well hello Danbooru. Looks like i found a good time to think about quitting Sankaku moderating.
So, we are still on the futanari/newhalf train aye?

Well honestly I'm at a point where the misuse of the term Futanari has made it arguably a useless term.

Its a stretch, but maybe we could "return to monkey"? Switch back to using Hermaphrodite for its much simpler and unarguable meaning summarised basically as "both". Haha, mostly a joke but it has some merit as a nuclear option?

anyway back to the subject.
On the case of newhalf, which is effectively the Japanese term for transgender or shemale, its use isn't good. Mostly visually fitting, but not definitionally.
Tagging is supposed to be about the visual representation of an image, but its not always something you can rely on. Furthering it needs to have a fitting definition to make tagging accuracy reliable. (unlike futanari atm)

I'm not a fan of introducing yet another bomb to the campfire. The entire issue with futanari was created by the introduction of "full-package_futanari". Sorry but "futa_without_pussy" is just another issue on that pile.

The predicament of replacing newhalf is some thing i have been wrestling with for years.
- We could try to introduce a term from another site like "gynomorph", really not a fan of that one particularly.
- We could try to create a term to cover it, something that might translate well. It would need to be simple and textually direct like "fem-dick" = "feminine body but with only a dicknballs" similar to dickgirl tho which is another Japanese term, unsure on the full meaning behind it tho never looked into it.

Some of it has come from how words and meanings evolve over time and such. Like I thought futanari used to basically mean a girl with girl and guy parts(dick, balls and pussy). Then I started seeing shemale, dickgirl, newhalf. And then futanari in some places just the umbrella term from "girls with a dick" but in other places dickgirl is the umbrella term for girls with a dick. And don't even throw even the curve balls of "girl whose has a dick where her clit would be but no balls". Then here we got even more deep with full package futanari. It's honestly hard to keep up with all the different terms.

IMO, the problem with futanari and newhalf tags being used incorrectly could be solved in a relatively simple (although not easy) way:

• Use dickgirl instead of futanari as the umbrella term for all females with male genitalia regardless of the amount of balls and vaginas they posses.
• Use futanari for females with male and female genitals, including those females "whose clit turned into a dick but didn't grew balls".
• Use full-package_futanari only for females with vagina, penis and balls.
• Deprecate newhalf since shemales/transwomen and pussyless dickgirls would be covered by dickgirl.
• Nuke the west for being gay and lazy to the point of creating and popularizing a subgenre of "dickgirls without pussy" without properly tagging it.

However, if futanari ceased to be the bigger umbrella term in pro of dickgirl, the filters of a lot of users would break and piss them off since only a subset of dickgirls would be filtered. The extreme popularity of the tag is what makes any change involving it really tricky, and probably why nobody has bothered to change the meaning and usage of the tag.

Replacing futanari with a different "encompasing tag" would be a good point but makes no steps to fixing the threads issue, that being newhalf.
Im in favour of fixing the futanari issue but one step at a time.

Dickgirl was originally a replacement for shemale. I think it could work.
https://dic.pixiv.net/a/Dickgirl
The japanese pixiv wiki says:

Dickgirl

でぃっくがーる
外見は女性だが性器は男性である存在を示す海外オタク用語。ふたなりとは若干異なる。

Quick GT says:

DickGirl

Diku
Overseas nerd terms indicating that they are women but genitals are male. It is slightly different from Futanari.

No connotation of transgenderism or cross dressing. Simple. Japaneses terminology aligns.
I see no issue as to why it wont work.

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