Renaming Newhalf

BUR #12570 has been rejected.

create alias newhalf -> futa_without_pussy
deprecate newhalf

There is a constant battle on whether or not newhalf should be used for canon tagging and every single argument about it stems from the fact that the way Danbooru uses newhalf is not the way it is commonly defined. Currently, it's defined as one thing, insisted that be defined partially in another way, constantly tag warred over, and a source of confusion. It needs to be changed.

The alias is primarily because it's too large to be renamed. The deprecation can be removed at a later time should we deem that newhalf be a viable tag.

For the granular newhalf tags like newhalf_with_male, if this passes I say we should outright nuke them. They're rare tags and rarely useful, especially ones like futa with newhalf where it's only futa because we can't see the taint on a futa background character.

...there is one confounding factor, and that is the no pussy tag. We already use no testicles for things like intravaginal futanari. We could simply nuke Newhalf and direct people to using no pussy instead. I, personally, do not like this option.

I would say it has pros and cons. Essentially, it's a very similar approach to rule34, where tags such as newhalf or shemale doesn't exist, instead there is the "futa_sans_pussy". It's not a bad idea considering that:

• Newhalf has been treated as a subset of Futanari for a good time
• The more recent posts are in a practical sense, just futanari with pussy. There's rarely anything that suggest they are representing transexual women. (It's worth noting that although rare, cis newhalf do exist, with kirihara torajyuro tatsumune being the most prominent one, so it shouldn't be mistaken for transgender).
• All "newhalf_with" already implying the respectively "futa_with" counterparts, which makes them a little obsolete and less pratical, specially considering there isn't "newhalf_on_male" and "male_on_newhalf".

However, I think we should be careful with a few newhalf posts that might be on the thin line between "boy with breasts" and "girl with dick". The wiki would completely change of course. In general I'm not against it, but I'm interested on seeing more opinions as well.

EHentai uses "shemale" instead of "newhalf" and "dickgirl_on_X" / "X_on_dickgirl" tags for both shemale/newhalf and futanari stuff rather than having separate "X_on_Y" tags for each specimen, to put another example of how this topic is treated in a similar site.

That name sounds awful. I don't know if 'dickgirl' is more clear though.

"Dickgirl" doesn't work as a replacement of newhalf/shemale since it encompasses both futanari (female with dick+pussy) and newhalf/shemale (female with dick but no pussy).

Honestly that would be a terrible tag and name for it and would only lead to more confusion since so much futanari is done at angles where you can't tell if there is a pussy in the first place.

Talulah said:

That name sounds awful. I don't know if 'dickgirl' is more clear though.

If you have a better name with similar functionality, let me know.

13Senrans said:

Honestly that would be a terrible tag and name for it and would only lead to more confusion since so much futanari is done at angles where you can't tell if there is a pussy in the first place.

Why would it lead to more confusion when that's already what the tag is defined as?

Your response is exactly why newhalf needs to be changed.

mongirlfan said:

• The more recent posts are in a practical sense, just futanari with pussy. There's rarely anything that suggest they are representing transexual women. (It's worth noting that although rare, cis newhalf do exist, with kirihara torajyuro tatsumune being the most prominent one, so it shouldn't be mistaken for transgender).

That character is one of the main focal points of the issues this tag has had in the past. Never forget the insanity of post #1786727 being tagged with newhalf, transgender, and yaoi. In fact, one of the people who frequent argue for turning newhalf into a canon tag with usage akin to a canon transgender tag voted this BUR down, which is very strange.

It might be difficult to handle the issue because the booru follows a "Tag what you see, not what you know" policy, which means people gonna use their own (possibly biased) judgment when choosing between futa and newhalf, which leads to tagging errors. Some people don't know about newhalf at all and tag everything as futa while other people make the distinction between the two. It's a perpetual war fueled by two school of thoughts that will seemly never end.

Now, the Newhalf -> Futa_without_pussy proposition has both advantages and disadvantages. Futa is well known by anime/manga consumers, while newhalf doesn't seem to be as known. Hence it makes sense to use the most popular tag and make subgroups of that tag. But, it also goes against the very definition of futanari: hermaphroditism, which requires both sets of genitalia.

Suggestion from another imageboard: use "herm" for futa/intersex/girls with both sets of genitalia, and "gynomorph" for newhalf/girls with only a penis.

13Senrans said:

Honestly that would be a terrible tag and name for it and would only lead to more confusion since so much futanari is done at angles where you can't tell if there is a pussy in the first place.

Tag what you see. In my opinion, if one doesn't see a pussy, got to use the appropriate "pussy-less tag" (whatever it will be) for that.

Gynomorph is an equally (or maybe more) awful term because nobody who doesn't use e621 knows what it means. Sounds more like some type of alien. We should be trying to use more common terminology.

If you don't see a pussy that doesn't necessarily means you'd want to tag newhalf (or whatever it ends up renamed to). The idea is it should only be tagged when you can visually confirm there is no pussy. If it's ambiguous (covered by testicles or whatever) it just gets futa.

Unlike futanari, which is a real-life term which has since been subsumed by its anime and manga (read: fetish) manifestations, newhalf still has real-life usage that does not coincide with how we use it on Danbooru (where it is basically vagina-less_futanari), which causes issues when people try to tag it in a way that aligns with real life but doesn't on Danbooru.

If nothing else, a descriptively-clear-but-poor new name is better than using the currently massively loaded name; we can always change it to a better one on a later date.

Damian0358 said:

Unlike futanari, which is a real-life term which has since been subsumed by its anime and manga (read: fetish) manifestations, newhalf still has real-life usage that does not coincide with how we use it on Danbooru (where it is basically vagina-less_futanari), which causes issues when people try to tag it in a way that aligns with real life but doesn't on Danbooru.

If nothing else, a descriptively-clear-but-poor new name is better than using the currently massively loaded name; we can always change it to a better one on a later date.

It's not just real life we have to take into account - there are shemale/newhalf artists that explicitly are interested in MTF characters, and this was the type of thing the tag was originally created for. Eliminating newhalf as a tag entirely means that we need a replacement tag for things like post #5646606 and post #3712171, which would otherwise be basically unfindable under walls of futanari posts.

feline_lump said:

It's not just real life we have to take into account - there are shemale/newhalf artists that explicitly are interested in MTF characters, and this was the type of thing the tag was originally created for. Eliminating newhalf as a tag entirely means that we need a replacement tag for things like post #5646606 and post #3712171, which would otherwise be basically unfindable under walls of futanari posts.

That's true. That'd be a valid use-case for newhalf, honestly, but you would have to agree that changing the tag for the majority use of the current newhalf tag to something like what Ver proposes above would aid in increasingly searchability for those cases in particular.

feline_lump said:

It's not just real life we have to take into account - there are shemale/newhalf artists that explicitly are interested in MTF characters, and this was the type of thing the tag was originally created for. Eliminating newhalf as a tag entirely means that we need a replacement tag for things like post #5646606 and post #3712171, which would otherwise be basically unfindable under walls of futanari posts.

That's why I brought up undoing the deprecation if need be.

I feel it should be deprecated while we figure out how to handle the transgender side of the debate and the attached tags like newhalf on X, but that debate is not this one. It is related; think of this as helping that debate actually happen with one less shackled-on issue.

Also, it should be noted that, due to the way newhalf is now, neither of those images should be tagged newhalf. Shifting this content over opens up the possibility of a new tag not directly mired in this.

I want to bring this image to attention here because people like Veradux keep vandalizing it with incorrect tags.

https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/5654193

This is not futanari. There are no breasts. There is no vagina. There is nothing about this outside of the skirt that indicates there is anything female about this. To label is as such is factually incorrect.

Tarage said:

I want to bring this image to attention here because people like Veradux keep vandalizing it with incorrect tags.

https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts/5654193

This is not futanari. There are no breasts. There is no vagina. There is nothing about this outside of the skirt that indicates there is anything female about this. To label is as such is factually incorrect.

Yeah the only person vandalising here is you. Fuck off before you get banned.

Tarage said:

There is nothing about this outside of the skirt that indicates there is anything female about this. To label is as such is factually incorrect.

On the very charitable assumption that you're simply unaware of this fact and your position isn't born of some sort of moral opposition to girls with dicks being tagged as girls with dicks, the danbooru post has a Twitter source with no commentary, but the artist also posted the same artwork on pixiv titled "ふたなりコハル" or "Futanari Koharu" in English. That settles the matter unless your intent is to argue that the artist was wrong about their own art.

7HS said:

On the very charitable assumption that you're simply unaware of this fact and your position isn't born of some sort of moral opposition to girls with dicks being tagged as girls with dicks, the danbooru post has a Twitter source with no commentary, but the artist also posted the same artwork on pixiv titled "ふたなりコハル" or "Futanari Koharu" in English. That settles the matter unless your intent is to argue that the artist was wrong about their own art.

This particular image would fall under "tag-what-you-see" though.

No pussy = newhalf.

punished_K said:

This particular image would fall under "tag-what-you-see" though.

No pussy = newhalf.

That's not the point they were trying to make. Tarage has been vandalizing the post by replacing 1girl, futanari, and newhalf with 1boy and male focus.

I would suggest treating any feminine character with a penis as futanari unless it's clearly visible (or stated) that she has no pussy.

Oniii-chan said:

I would suggest treating any feminine character with a penis as futanari unless it's clearly visible (or stated) that she has no pussy.

It already works like that currently (unless you mean otoko no ko as well). This forum's BUR would fully expand the futanari tag to posts where the dickgirl has no pussy, while (at least temporarily) retiring the newhalf tag.

feline_lump said:

It's not just real life we have to take into account - there are shemale/newhalf artists that explicitly are interested in MTF characters, and this was the type of thing the tag was originally created for. Eliminating newhalf as a tag entirely means that we need a replacement tag for things like post #5646606 and post #3712171, which would otherwise be basically unfindable under walls of futanari posts.

These cases are basically what I meant with the thin line between "boy with breasts" and "girl with dick". If the BUR is approved, the newhalf tag would be open for discussion of a new purpose, because I believe it's a niche that interest certain users.