If lily can be tagged as a girl why can’t Bridget they look about the same(body wise) If it’s tag what you see? Also what about the other trans characters like grell and jun? Genuine question I want to know what the difference is if not lore based?
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anon7631 said:
The claim has been and continues to be repeatedly disputed. The fact that you agree with it does not make it "indisputable", calling it such is objectively wrong, and pretending otherwise does not "contribute actual stuff" to the discussion. It's nothing but a diversion and a distraction from the issue itself.
https://www.guiltygear.com/ggst/en/news/post-1657/
It is as debatable as the earth being round.
Catshavedoritoears said:
If lily can be tagged as a girl why can’t Bridget they look about the same(body wise) If it’s tag what you see? Also what about the other trans characters like grell and jun? Genuine question I want to know what the difference is if not lore based?
well for Lily, the thing was that the audience didn't know she was trans, so it's a spoiler thing, she's only tagged as male if her male body is shown or referenced.
i believe other characters who are in a similar situation to Bridget (ie. not transitioned) are just tagged as their biological gender.
anon7631 said:
The claim has been and continues to be repeatedly disputed. The fact that you agree with it does not make it "indisputable", calling it such is objectively wrong, and pretending otherwise does not "contribute actual stuff" to the discussion. It's nothing but a diversion and a distraction from the issue itself.
look man, i don't mean to be a party pooper, but bridget does identify as a woman, it's literally in the original post. biologically she's still male, that's true. but for all intents and purposes, she's a girl, just not biologically female, that's what lessbeanants was talking about.
Catshavedoritoears said:
If lily can be tagged as a girl why can’t Bridget they look about the same(body wise) If it’s tag what you see? Also what about the other trans characters like grell and jun? Genuine question I want to know what the difference is if not lore based?
The reason Lily ended up that way is because it's considered a spoiler. Personally, I think that's terrible reasoning, and that no exception should have been made. I think the impact of spoilers is overrated and that a good story can usually stand just as well after exposure to them, I think it's an inherent risk of looking at fanart in a way that can never be done away with, and I think the time-sensitive nature (Snape kills Dumbledore was a spoiler 12 years ago, but long since stopped being one by any meaningful measure) is a poor choice to base tags on.
lessbeanants said:
https://www.guiltygear.com/ggst/en/news/post-1657/
It is as debatable as the earth being round.
Very first sentence of the bio: "Bridget was born one of two sons". It's an understatement to say that him being a girl is "debatable".
morriganaensland said:
biologically she's still male, that's true. but for all intents and purposes, she's a girl, just not biologically female
This is a remarkably self-defeating post.
anon7631 said:
Very first sentence of the bio: "Bridget was born one of two sons". It's an understatement to say that him being a girl is "debatable".
it's a shame you can't scroll down.
also, yeah. trans people... aren't born as their chosen gender, who would've thunk?
anon7631 said:
Very first sentence of the bio: "Bridget was born one of two sons". It's an understatement to say that him being a girl is "debatable".
Please be serious. We're not about to debate over whether every character on this website is still a baby. What we're here to do is try to find a solution that will work for the people looking to search for Bridget because she's a trans woman and because she physically resembles an otoko no ko, not to try to find excuses to crap on the discussion until one party leaves or the thread gets locked.
morriganaensland said:
it's a shame you can't scroll down.
also, yeah. trans people... aren't born as their chosen gender, who would've thunk?
Even if you yourself think a boy who calls himself a girl is a girl, it doesn't make him "indisputably" a girl. It is extremely disputable.
But, as I already said, that is not the point of this thread, and is just a distraction.
feline_lump said:
Please be serious. We're not about to debate over whether every character on this website is still a baby. What we're here to do is try to find a solution that will work for the people looking to search for Bridget because she's a trans woman and because she physically resembles an otoko no ko, not to try to find excuses to crap on the discussion until one party leaves or the thread gets locked.
And I have been making arguments towards a solution, despite these derailments. I'm not "crapping" on anything, and I'm not the one who claimed my argument was "indisputable".
anon7631 said:
And I have been making arguments towards a solution, despite these derailments. I'm not "crapping" on anything, and I'm not the one who claimed my argument was "indisputable".
"Keep everything the same" is something we've tried 4-5 times now, and it's never made people any more capable of searching for trans characters. It's great that the status quo works for your personal disagreement with canon, but we have to think about everyone here.
i mean, is there really any solution? neither side is willing to budge. Bridget is a trans girl, but physically an otoko no ko (unless ky used bullshit gear powers to un-male her and we didn't know). these are facts.
there's only so much we can do:
tag strive Bridget as 1girl, either defying one of the main rules of danbooru tagging or rewriting the rules of the most used tags. also making one side of the crowd angry and transphobic (probably)
tag strive Bridget as 1girl except when where's visible proof of her otoko no ko body, a la Lily but without the spoilers. this is a problem because ???? people will be confused i guess (also aforementioned pre-op tagging shenanigans)
keep tagging Bridget as 1boy and otoko no ko and have the people call the site transphobic or have these kind of forum posts popping up until the end of time
i sincerely can not come up with any other solution :(
feline_lump said:
"Keep everything the same" is something we've tried 4-5 times now, and it's never made people any more capable of searching for trans characters. It's great that the status quo works for your personal disagreement with canon, but we have to think about everyone here.
Then let the comparison I already made to genderswap guide the way. Continue using the main gender tags for what the characters physically are, as before, but add a transgender_(mtf) or opposite equivalent to indicate what they identify as. So Bridget would get tagged in ways like 1boy transgender_(mtf). It makes no judgement either way on the validity of that self-identification, and it allows everyone to find what they want and hide what they don't.
morriganaensland said:
i mean, is there really any solution? neither side is willing to budge. Bridget is a trans girl, but physically an otoko no ko (unless ky used bullshit gear powers to un-male her and we didn't know). these are facts.
there's only so much we can do:
tag strive Bridget as 1girl, either defying one of the main rules of danbooru tagging or rewriting the rules of the most used tags. also making one side of the crowd angry and transphobic (probably)
tag strive Bridget as 1girl except when where's visible proof of her otoko no ko body, a la Lily but without the spoilers. this is a problem because ???? people will be confused i guess (also aforementioned pre-op tagging shenanigans)
keep tagging Bridget as 1boy and otoko no ko and have the people call the site transphobic or have these kind of forum posts popping up until the end of time
i sincerely can not come up with any other solution :(
I stand by the "we should do what we did with Lily" here. It's a spoiler for people going through the whole franchise, from the very first game to the latest.
sadodere said:
I stand by the "we should do what we did with Lily" here. It's a spoiler for people going through the whole franchise, from the very first game to the latest.
not only what anon7631 said about how everyone knows, but nobody really plays fighting games like that. every guilty gear fan already knows about it, and any new guilty gear fan is not going to start from the first game. nobody getting into a fighting game would start from the first game, they would usually start from the most recent game, since that's what everyone's playing. the only people i could see this spoiling is people who have no clue about guilty gear at all, but at that point would they even know Bridget is/was an otoko no ko?
this would have been a solid argument if guilty gear was this great multi-game spanning jrpg franchise, but it's not.
I side on how the piece of media treats them, even though I'm aware that's not how everyone does.
I would personally find it a mistake to tag Lily as a boy even if the first episode revealed that she was born with male biology and later came out as female. Even if that was the case the show only treats her as female. The show does not play into or treat her as otoko no ko or anything other then a female (dead) idol. I personally think that's how it should be for every character when we can. Strive and Guilty Gear going forward treat Bridget as female, as well as the creators of the media. Thus I personally think that we should find some answer to if we are going to tag a character whose gender identity changed over the course of the franchise differently. And I'll say that people are going to bring their outside feelings and politics into this cause it's a big issue all around the world.
anon7631 said:
Then let the comparison I already made to genderswap guide the way. Continue using the main gender tags for what the characters physically are, as before, but add a transgender_(mtf) or opposite equivalent to indicate what they identify as. So Bridget would get tagged in ways like 1boy transgender_(mtf). It makes no judgement either way on the validity of that self-identification, and it allows everyone to find what they want and hide what they don't.
I can only side with this idea in the sense it isn't messing with anything I use and don't have a reason to care. Fine by me.
anon7631 said:
This is just a veiled way of saying the tagging system should conform to your political ideology, and those who disagree don't matter.
No one is trying to find anything about politics in this. Gender expression and similar topics are not political unless you make them about politics. And knowing this and your previous posts I can very easily deduce that you're very deep into far-right politics so no one tries to argue this with you, the fact that you're allowed here doing these nonsensical and rather harmful comments is still insane to me.
Kamsthetics said:
Gender expression and similar topics are not political unless you make them about politics.
Lots of people claim that agreeing with them isn't political but disagreeing is. It usually isn't true.
Kamsthetics said:
And knowing this and your previous posts I can very easily deduce that you're very deep into far-right politics so no one tries to argue this with you
My politics are not "far" anything, and the posts I've made in this thread are thoroughly moderate. A right-wing poster would have dispensed with the talk of self-identity and gone straight to accusations of mental illness. That's not what my posts were, nor will they be.
Kamsthetics said:
the fact that you're allowed here doing these nonsensical and rather harmful comments is still insane to me.
This discussion is neither of those things. If you consider mere polite disagreement to be "harmful", that is on you.
I think the topic will continue derailing into "politics" until potential solutions are proposed and listed out by an admin or moderator like in the previous thread for everyone else to discuss. Although I do believe that a part of the reply is a bit outdated, considering that transgender tag is no longer a thing (or rather, has been changed to gender transitioning). The tag could be changed to include characters like Bridget, but it does not resolve the underlying issue of tagging either 1boy or 1girl.
If we change, i believe that we could run into the problem of annoying more people than it's worth. You could place images of a perceived boy kissing a girl in the Yuri, which would annoy Yuri fans, Yaoi fans would lose the images where a male character is going down in a masculine body, Hetero fans would lose images where a boy and girl are doing things together, Otoko no ko would lose images of a feminine character with boyish features, like bulge. I believe we could keep the 1boy tag on Bridget's works, and just add a transgender_(lore) tag for Strive
Also, it's important to say, as much as people may like the new change, you can't erase 20 years of story in a night. Bridget was, and still is, known for being a Otokonoko, their identity being the one of a boy is what you're gonna find in past interviews with Daisuke, in the old games, in sfw and nsfw doujins and art of the past and present, it's even what you're gonna find in anime parodies, Hayore! Nyaruko-san has a Otokonoko joke with Bridget. So it's not like we can just go and say that everyone coming here is seeing the character as a "girl" or even that this is what people are gonna remember them as going forward. This is a image board who host a lot of Fanart, which is art born out of fan interpretation, most Bridget art is Fanart, so it's important to take into account the fans expectations.
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