Project Sekai

BUR #12289 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

mass update hatsune_miku 25-ji_night_code_de._(project_sekai) -id:5112293,5156819,5602739,4842046,4920850,4945365 -> 25-ji_miku
create implication 25-ji_miku -> hatsune_miku
create alias 25_miku -> 25-ji_miku

I really hope I'm doing this correctly, I've never used the "update" request format before. Please tell me if I've done something wrong.

Before I explain why I think this change should be made, let me explain who this is.

In the game Project Sekai, there are multiple idol groups. Each of them feature specific VOCALOIDs owned by Crypton, as Project Sekai is basically an "idol game meets VOCALOID" kinda situation.

One of the groups is 25-ji, Nightcord de.. I feel this tag should be used for when the entire group is featured, kind of like how Hololive has group tags like holoX. Notice the holoX wiki says it should only be used for:

The image/commentary mentions the words "gen 6 / 6期生", or "holoX".
The artist deliberately groups all 5 of the members (or their respective mascots) together.

In the 25-ji Night code de. (project sekai) tag, it's mainly used for that. But you may notice a single character being used for many of them, a character with mismacthed twintails and heterochormia. This character is 25-ji Miku.

25-ji Miku's design can be seen here". As you can see, she has a very unique design that obviously doesn't belong to anyone but 25-ji Miku. Also referred to as simply "25 Miku," she's not only a VOCALOID insert but has her own unique personality and everything as well. She's best described as both a design and a derivative of Miku, although she still has Miku's voicebank and... is still Miku.

Confusing description, but I hope that kind of explains it.

We have tags like Yuki Miku and Sakura Miku that highlight a different "design" of Miku. This is a fairly similar case, but this Miku's design is VEEEERY different than just the typical Hatsune Miku design. But she's still a version of Hatsune Miku.

If this gets approved, we can look into the other versions of Miku and other VOCALOIDs in-game. But 25-ji Miku's design is by far the most recognizable, as it's not only a change in clothing there.

And if this change is made, I believe the "group" tag should be used in cases similar to holoX's group tag.

The Project Sekai original characters have a bunch of different outfits (colorful palette) and Cryptonloids also have other outfits outside of the band ones (post #3682006). Do we really want to create tags for all of them? I’m in favor of having a way to search for outfits but a lot of gacha/card outfits don’t have names, and currently some of them are grouped under the related song (Lower)

magcolo said:

The Project Sekai original characters have a bunch of different outfits (colorful palette) and Cryptonloids also have other outfits outside of the band ones (post #3682006). Do we really want to create tags for all of them? I’m in favor of having a way to search for outfits but a lot of gacha/card outfits don’t have names, and currently some of them are grouped under the related song (Lower)

25-ji is an exception to this, as it's a design shown everywhere. The Mikus in Project Sekai are all separate, if I recall; they have their own personalities and everything.

So I'm guessing you're talking about when I said "If this gets approved, we can look into the other versions of Miku and other VOCALOIDs in-game."

By this, I more so meant the default designs of the bands. Those are something I'm a little more hesitant about adding, as many of them look very similar to their original designs and wouldn't be as easily recognizable.

Doing outfits from every card, though... I'm not sure about that. There are a lot of outfits from what I recall and, as you said, many of them don't even have names. Maybe if it's a song original to Project Sekai...?

*you might want to minus post #5112293, post #5156819, post #5602739, post #4842046, post #4920850, post #4945365 from your BUR

sadodere said:

25-ji is an exception to this, as it's a design shown everywhere.

Exception to what?

sadodere said:

So I'm guessing you're talking about when I said "If this gets approved, we can look into the other versions of Miku and other VOCALOIDs in-game."

By this, I more so meant the default designs of the bands. Those are something I'm a little more hesitant about adding, as many of them look very similar to their original designs and wouldn't be as easily recognizable.

No I mean that if we’re creating tags for the band outfits, it wouldn’t make sense to leave other types of outfits out. This is often mentioned in gacha/skin threads, either don’t or do them all. Since there’s currently no way of searching them either.

Tag for every card might be a bit excessive, start with ones that have at least some fanarts. e.g. There’s an outfit of Emu and Nene that recently blew up in popularity, but it doesn’t seem to be connected to a song nor have a name. (post #5649327)

sadodere said:

[…] as many of them look very similar to their original designs and wouldn't be as easily recognizable.

I’m not sure which ones are you talking about?

sadodere said: BUR

The group tag was used at first for the 4 characters, then it became used for the vocaloids since there were no similar tags.
It's going to take a while to retag.

25-ji is an exception to this, as it's a design shown everywhere.

It's just the most popular. All group mikus are used in official artwork, merch, and the such.

Those are something I'm a little more hesitant about adding, as many of them look very similar to their original designs and wouldn't be as easily recognizable.

I think it's fine, tbh. Some magical mirai mikus are just miku with a different dress too.

magcolo said:
Tag for every card might be a bit excessive, start with ones that have at least some fanarts. e.g. There’s an outfit of Emu and Nene that recently blew up in popularity, but it doesn’t seem to be connected to a song nor have a name.

One way they could be categorized could be by the event names. The event all those outfits (+ a miku one) debuted in was "close game/OFFLINE", we could use that name or the gacha's name, "Cyber Sniper". If we choose one, we'd have to be consistent and use only event or gacha names.
I prefer the gacha names.

magcolo said:

*you might want to minus post #5112293, post #5156819, post #5602739, post #4842046, post #4920850, post #4945365 from your BUR

Sorry, as mentioned above, this is my first time doing this... how do I minus them? Or does that mean to just go back and change those ones if it's approved...?

No I mean that if we’re creating tags for the band outfits, it wouldn’t make sense to leave other types of outfits out. This is often mentioned in gacha/skin threads, either don’t or do them all. Since there’s currently no way of searching them either.

Oh, no, this isn't what I'm talking about here! 25-ji Miku is her own character, as I explained above. She wouldn't count as an "outfit" I don't think.

Shibi said:

It's just the most popular. All group mikus are used in official artwork, merch, and the such.

Yes, but I'm only talking about this Miku for now. And that's exactly why: she's the most popular one. This should have been made a while ago.

I'm a bit on the fence on adding this tag. Though I do see the reasons to add it, it brings up the question of how will the other Mikus and crypton-loids be named? Will it be something like wonderlandxshowtime_miku, or just wonderland_miku? The name can get pretty long when we consider more more jump (more_more_jump_miku ?), but we can use one nickname i've seen on JP side for the more more jump miku, which is just idol miku. As for the other various nicknames, I don't know of a definitive way.

As for naming each costume, I think that is a bit much considering how rare it is put up here and the excessive amount of tags created for it (having to remember the event/gacha and all :P).

Another aside, looking at that holoX tag there has been instance of the tag not be used for all five, but rather for the individual. It would take a while to trawl through and remove it if we were to go through it here with Sekai.

sadodere said:

Sorry, as mentioned above, this is my first time doing this... how do I minus them? Or does that mean to just go back and change those ones if it's approved...?

Just put a minus sign before each post, like how you do in search, e.g. -post #5112293

sadodere said:

Oh, no, this isn't what I'm talking about here! 25-ji Miku is her own character, as I explained above. She wouldn't count as an "outfit" I don't think.

I don't agree, if she is actually her own character, then she shouldn’t imply Hatsune Miku. And why aren’t the other band Mikus their own characters too? Especially considering Vocaloids have no canon personality, it’s just a 25-ji depiction of her.
Plus, "being her own character" isn’t a good reason to give her a tag, we tag her because she has a distinct "look", if all the band mikus all have the same look (and clothes) we won’t be tagging them. Or else we’ll be tagging that Miku in Cytus II because she has some personality there.
So if you want to give this variant a tag, there is no reason to not give other variants tags, even if they don’t have as much "character".

magcolo said:

I don't agree, if she is actually her own character, then she shouldn’t imply Hatsune Miku. And why aren’t the other band Mikus their own characters too? Especially considering Vocaloids have no canon personality, it’s just a 25-ji depiction of her.
Plus, "being her own character" isn’t a good reason to give her a tag, we tag her because she has a distinct "look", if all the band mikus all have the same look (and clothes) we won’t be tagging them. Or else we’ll be tagging that Miku in Cytus II because she has some personality there.
So if you want to give this variant a tag, there is no reason to not give other variants tags, even if they don’t have as much "character".

...She has a distinct look. That's what I said in the original post, no?

The other Mikus: someone else can do those ones, I'm mainly focused on 25-ji Miku because she has a VERY distinct look right now. And she IS a Miku, but she's also her own character because Project Sekai gave her a specific personality and all that.

Do you not see her and think "oh, she's not distinct at all"?

SimpleName21 said:

I'm a bit on the fence on adding this tag. Though I do see the reasons to add it, it brings up the question of how will the other Mikus and crypton-loids be named? Will it be something like wonderlandxshowtime_miku, or just wonderland_miku? The name can get pretty long when we consider more more jump (more_more_jump_miku ?), but we can use one nickname i've seen on JP side for the more more jump miku, which is just idol miku. As for the other various nicknames, I don't know of a definitive way.

Yes, we'd definitely need to find that out at some point. wonderland miku is much too vague, so we would likely need to do the full wonderlandxshowtime miku or even wxs miku... however, I feel like this is the best starting point because she looks so unique and doesn't just belong under Hatsune Miku alone.

A big reason I myself am not trying to add these ones is because of the names and the fact most of them look like their original "counterparts." 25-ji Miku is a weird case where she has a very unique look. Someone better at words and arguing on here can probably come up with a good solution, but that's not something I can do.

Another aside, looking at that holoX tag there has been instance of the tag not be used for all five, but rather for the individual. It would take a while to trawl through and remove it if we were to go through it here with Sekai.

If this is added, I can probably try to work on this as well since... well, this is my idea and it'd be my responsibility I guess.

magcolo said:

Just put a minus sign before each post, like how you do in search, e.g. -post #5112293

Did I do it right, or was I meant to put the minus after another part?

So I looked at the other names and have some ideas, but keep in mind... I haven't played the game in a bit. I will only go into the Miku designs here, as I'm guessing the same tags will apply to the other Cryptonloids.

Leo/need is a short enough name that it should be fine. However, if not, we could always go with L/n (character name) or something.

Miku could be leo/need miku or l/n miku if absolutely needed. If we go with the latter, we would add the former as an alias.

--------

MORE MORE JUMP! is one of the longer names. My idea is as follows:

Miku could be MMJ! miku, as MMJ! is often already considered the primary abbreviation. We would add more more jump! miku as an alias.

--------

Vivid BAD SQUAD

Similar to the one above. VBS is also commonly accepted as the abbreviation.

Miku could be VBS miku with vivid bad squad miku as an alias.

--------

Wonderlands x Showtime

As mentioned above, this would just be WxS. Exact same as the above ideas.

Miku would be WxS Miku with wonderlands x showtime miku as an alias.

--------

Now, some problems:

Many of these characters, as you notice, look a lot like their original Cryptonloid designs. While 25-ji has a very distinct design, these ones may not be as recognizable as the others... and that's why I wanted to do 25-ji's tag before anyone else's. This is a whole other can of worms. Same game, yes, but the designs aren't as distinct and I think that's the biggest problem people will have on here.

However, the same arguments could be made for a lot of other Miku designs that are featured in songs yet have tags on here, I guess. But these characters from these respective groups will all show up on here frequently, just as they already have been. I think adding these tags would be more useful and organized than anything, because the specific designs I've shown in the character name links are all unique in their own ways.

sadodere said:
A big reason I myself am not trying to add these ones is because of the names and the fact most of them look like their original "counterparts." 25-ji Miku is a weird case where she has a very unique look. Someone better at words and arguing on here can probably come up with a good solution, but that's not something I can do.

I would say they all have a unique design except for the more more jump miku. And has been stated earlier in this thread, the magical mirai mikus (and even the racing miku IMO) are pretty much normal mikus in different clothes so I dont see why not be able to create tags for the rest of the groups. :P

And what I'm also trying to understand here is, are we adding it mostly because she has a unique personality (character), or because of her unique apperance (looks)? From what i see, everyone agrees she looks unique enough to add, just not on the groundings of her personality (which will open a whole can of worms i think).

sadodere said:

Did I do it right, or was I meant to put the minus after another part?

The minus part should come before the arrow.

magcolo said:

The minus part should come before the arrow.

Like that?

(Thank you for helping by the way!)

SimpleName21 said:

And what I'm also trying to understand here is, are we adding it mostly because she has a unique personality (character), or because of her unique apperance (looks)? From what i see, everyone agrees she looks unique enough to add, just not on the groundings of her personality (which will open a whole can of worms i think).

Design primarily!

sadodere said:

...She has a distinct look. That's what I said in the original post, no?

The other Mikus: someone else can do those ones, I'm mainly focused on 25-ji Miku because she has a VERY distinct look right now. And she IS a Miku, but she's also her own character because Project Sekai gave her a specific personality and all that.

[…]
Many of these characters, as you notice, look a lot like their original Cryptonloid designs.

I still don’t get your point, the other Mikus are just as distinguishable as 25-ji, because they all have unique outfits. Are you saying that if 25-ji Miku doesn’t have her grey hair and heterochromia, you won’t be able to recognize her? She’s still wearing the same dress.
Sure, Yuki Miku has light blue hair and Sakura Miku has pink hair. But the vast majority of Magical Mirai Miku and Racing Miku still have aqua hair and aqua eyes. Do you think they shouldn’t be tagged because they look just like og Miku?

(I was still typing. SimpleName21 said pretty much what I wanted to say. xD)

I’m not saying that 25-ji shouldn’t get her tag, I really agree with you on that, but there're a few misunderstandings here:
1. Personality is not a valid reason to tag a character variant, however her design is worth tagging
2. 25-ji’s grey hair and heterochromia definitely stands out more, but that doesn’t mean that she’s more distinguish that the other bands. We don’t tag by the face, we look at the entire. There’re thousands of skin tags out there that has no change on the face and hair, but just by the outfit alone, it qualifies as a distinct variant. If you can still recognize that specific variant when I hide her face, that means her clothings is giving enough clues.
3. If we’re giving 25-ji tag, it won’t be "maybe the other bands could too, idk someone else go do it". We need to give them tags too, because as I said they’re not less distinct than 25-ji Miku, so there’s zero reason to not give them tags too. We should have some consistency.

magcolo said:

I still don’t get your point, the other Mikus are just as distinguishable as 25-ji, because they all have unique outfits. Are you saying that if 25-ji Miku doesn’t have her grey hair and heterochromia, you won’t be able to recognize her? She’s still wearing the same dress.

Her hair and heterochromia make her stand out the most, yes. No doubt about that.

see below

It's like this: hatsune_miku 25-ji_night_code_de._(project_sekai) -id:5112293,5156819,5602739,4842046,4920850,4945365.

Or make a favgroup (help:favorite groups), add the posts to the favgroup, then say hatsune_miku 25-ji_night_code_de._(project_sekai) -favgroup:123456 (replace 123456 with your favgroup id).