Was this the single largest nuked tag?
Posted under Tags
I disagree with it being a useless tag. It described a valid aspect of the content, which its ubiquity does not change, albeit it makes gardening that tag require more effort (which with the advent of A.I. assisted tagging is being mitigated, so… please…).
In the very same way I would defend the need for female_focus and japanese_text— it is true that most illustrations on Danbooru with humans in them are female_focus and that most text is japanese_text.
Still, I do have a need to look specifically for posts of that kind without having to filter out tags that are the opposite (which may be missing!). Now, if I want exactly japanese_text I have no means of searching for it, beyond filtering out other languages (which would exclude multi–language posts) or filtering by hand; translated, translation_request and partially_translated do not imply japanese_text.
Back to the eyebrows_visible_through_hair tag… the majority of Danbooru users have a very restricted amount of tags that they can search for. Searching for such a ubiquitous detail is not worth it for such users, as would any other detail tag— though, filtering it out would have more use, it is still not a luxury Anons and non–premium Members can enjoy. I also used it in my searches (be it on Danbooru or exported elsewhere) to find posts that I remembered having that tag or otherwise to look for artist who draw like that. Another user I spoke to mentioned that the tag implies (in the logical sense) bangs but that this tag was often enough missing— so they would use eyebrows_visible_through_hair as an auxiliary tag to garden bangs.
@Provence said:
Tagging the norm is not something that should be done.
What's next? Light-skinned_female?
Remark: Yes.
I don’t like to make use of the strawman, but given the trend of deprecating tags that apply to most posts, let me show this absurd example:
Given that most posts are about girls, most of them having open eyes and looking somewhere (at YOU)… the default is looking_at_viewer. Aprox 1/3rd of Danbooru is tagged with that— and obviously there’s plenty of posts missing that tag. To save tagging effort, you could (PLEASE DON’T) deprecate the looking_at_viewer tag and just have people filter out the other looking_* tags (which would cause the same kind of problem as the deprecated japanese_text tag.
Fortunately, that tag has been in use for much longer and I hope no one questions its relevance in searches, even if anons are less likely to use it.
Anyway, it was extra information— for as little perceived value it may have had to most users. Now that information has been made harder to access. At least there’s the eyebrows_behind_hair tag— I’ll just have to get used to it.
Aken_Bosch said:
Was this the single largest nuked tag?
Yeah, most likely.
Observer_Alpha said:
[snip]
There's more to a tag than its size. Solo and 1girl are two examples of enormous tags that were proposed to be nuked in the past because of how common they are (ie not tagging the default). The reason they won in the end is because people cared to tag them and had justifiable reasons to keep them. As was said before, a tag that will apply to millions of posts needs a damn good reason to exist along with people willing to tag it. Nobody here was really able to give reasons to keep it beyond claiming the reasons to nuke it were invalid. When pressed on the matter they stopped responding. Nobody here was willing to tag it. It's been almost 4 years since the last proposed nuke and nobody bothered to spend a few days tagging it.
Talulah said (on June 20th):
In the time since this BUR was created, evth was added to a total of ~3220 new posts (excluding uploads created in that time). Only ~1840 of them were posts from before the nuke was proposed, and 1540 of those were from before this year. evth is now on just over 30k posts from before 2016.
For comparison, when the first nuke was proposed evth was on ~15k from before 2016. For such a massive tag that could apply to 90% of the site, that's a miserable number. None of the people acting like this tag was useful could be bothered to tag it. Nor does anyone actually search it. None of these issues is a huge deal on their own, but when you combine them all together it indicates that this tag does not really serve a purpose.
Anyway, eyebrows behind hair exists now. If you want eyebrows visible through hair you have three options:
1. ai:eyebrows_visible_through_hair
2. status:any
3. -eyebrows_behind_hair
The latter two options will have higher accuracy than eyebrows_visible_through_hair had.
Observer_Alpha said:
I also used it in my searches (be it on Danbooru or exported elsewhere) to find posts that I remembered having that tag or otherwise to look for artist who draw like that. Another user I spoke to mentioned that the tag implies (in the logical sense) bangs but that this tag was often enough missing— so they would use eyebrows_visible_through_hair as an auxiliary tag to garden bangs.
Even if this tag had full coverage this would be a completely useless search because it applies to damn near every post. You want an artist that draws like that? Look at the front page, every artist does. You want to find an image with evth? Well, it applies to every image, so you don't really get much filtering from that (and it might even be excluding the one you want, if it wasn't tagged, which it often wasn't).
Observer_Alpha said:
Still, I do have a need to look specifically for posts of that kind without having to filter out tags that are the opposite (which may be missing!). Now, if I want exactly japanese_text I have no means of searching for it, beyond filtering out other languages (which would exclude multi–language posts) or filtering by hand; translated, translation_request and partially_translated do not imply japanese_text.
Honestly I do agree that a Japanese text tag would be useful. While Japanese may be the assumed language of text, we don't have a generic "text" tag, so your only hope is to look through translated or translation_request to find it. Then you also have to exclude every language_text tag, especially with the increasing prevalence of Chinese and Korean media. In this case, though, there are more than two options. It's not "Japanese or non-Japanese", it's "Japanese, English, Chinese, Korean, ...". Leaving out Japanese while having dozens more makes it more annoying to search for, compared to tags where there are two primarily two options (eyebrows_visible_through_hair or eyebrows_behind_hair). But anyway, that's a topic for another thread.
FWIW I was keeping the tag fairly up to date on my favourites. No way I was going to tag it up on the site as a whole, though.
I was previously fairly strongly opposed to nuking the tag, but the creation of the eyebrows behind hair tag took away its purpose... or will once populated more... although of course there are plenty of people who see the name "eyebrows behind hair" and immediately assume it means "eyebrows visible through hair"... Perhaps renaming it to eyebrows hidden behind hair or similar would be better.
Talulah said:
[…] Solo and 1girl are two examples of enormous tags that were proposed to be nuked in the past because of how common they are (ie not tagging the default).
Damn. That would suck even more for me. Scary to think there’s people who were pushing that agenda. Would even make my common search “rating:safe 1girl solo sundress” more complicated.
skylightcrystal said:
[…] of course there are plenty of people who see the name "eyebrows behind hair" and immediately assume it means "eyebrows visible through hair"... Perhaps renaming it to eyebrows hidden behind hair or similar would be better.
Yeah, Ironically, I saw t{at when I first opened the wiki for that tag. Fixed one so far. Also sent a DM.
BUR #11065 has been approved by @nonamethanks.
create alias eyebrows_behind_hair -> eyebrows_hidden_by_hair
To make it clearer what the tag refers to and help resolve the large number of people who are reading the tag name as "eyebrows visible despite being behind hair", and/or are assuming it's a rename of eyebrows visible through hair..
skylightcrystal said:
BUR #11065 has been approved by @nonamethanks.
create alias eyebrows_behind_hair -> eyebrows_hidden_by_hair
To make it clearer what the tag refers to and help resolve the large number of people who are reading the tag name as "eyebrows visible despite being behind hair", and/or are assuming it's a rename of eyebrows visible through hair..
That sounds like its for images where the eyebrows are completely hidden. Can we think of a better tag name? Preferably shorter than "eyebrows partially obscured by hair".
The bulk update request #11065 (forum #216040) has been approved by @nonamethanks.
ion288 said:
That sounds like its for images where the eyebrows are completely hidden. Can we think of a better tag name? Preferably shorter than "eyebrows partially obscured by hair".
+1, the old name made more sense for both scenarios like post #5500898 and post #5500512, but the new name sounds like it's meant for posts like the latter example.
In my late-night tiredness I assumed when nonamethanks said "eyebrows visible behind hair" that he meant partially hidden eyebrows, (in contrast to "eyebrows visible through hair) so I created an eyebrows_visible_behind_hair tag for this case until I realized I most likely misunderstood, so I had to nuke it. Oops.
I do think separating completely hidden eyebrows from partially hidden eyebrows isn't a bad idea, because art with completely hidden eyebrows is fairly uncommon. Maybe that was the next step after cleaning up eyebrows_hidden_by_hair?
Sorry for any confusion I caused if I misunderstood something.
The update request was submitted after a fourth consecutive person told me that they had thought eyebrows behind hair was the same as eyebrows visible through hair had been. Some of these people had used the tag wrongly hundreds of times. It needed sorting urgently before the tag became unsalvagable.
People used to tagging eyebrows_visible_through_hair starting to type it in and seeing "eyebrows behind hair" were assuming that it was the same tag. After all, if eyebrows are visible through hair then by definition the eyebrows are behind the hair (but showing through).
eyebrows_hidden_by_hair doesn't say how much of the eyebrows are hidden. Although cases where the eyebrows are completely hidden do want the tag, so this misunderstanding is far less bad than the previous one.
If you can think of a better name then go ahead and suggest it.