Elsword chartag BURs

BUR #11013 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

3rd job implications + 4th path implications + implications that have deprecated in the past + new characters.

I'm leaving Demon Power (elsword) aside since it's shared by two characters.

These character tags probably need to be updated to alternate outfit standard, but I'll leave that at a later date.

Nisha Labyrinth is an awkward one. It is Nisha, yes, but in every other job Nisha is basically a mirror, whereas in Nisha Labyrinth (elsword) she's basically a palette-swapped Laby (and Laby becomes a palette-swapped version of what Nisha is in the other jobs).

Definite +1 to all the others though.

skylightcrystal said:

Nisha Labyrinth is an awkward one. It is Nisha, yes, but in every other job Nisha is basically a mirror, whereas in Nisha Labyrinth (elsword) she's basically a palette-swapped Laby (and Laby becomes a palette-swapped version of what Nisha is in the other jobs).

By logic every Nisha Labyrinth artwork should be tagged Nisha (elsword), but I'll remove that in order to not halt the entire BUR.

The bulk update request #11013 (forum #215757) has been approved by @nonamethanks.

BUR #11098 has been approved by @nonamethanks.

create implication tale_spinner_(elsword) -> rena_erindel
create alias ain_(elsword) -> ainchase_ishmael
create alias ara_(elsword) -> ara_haan
create alias noah_(elsword) -> noah_ebalon
create implication venom_taker_(elsword) -> raven_cronwell
create implication second_revenger_(elsword) -> noah_ebalon
create implication stellar_caster_(elsword) -> noah_ebalon
create implication silent_shadow_(elsword) -> noah_ebalon
create implication second_selection_(elsword) -> noah_ebalon
create implication celestia_(elsword) -> noah_ebalon
create implication second_grief_(elsword) -> noah_ebalon
create implication pale_pilgrim_(elsword) -> noah_ebalon
create implication nyx_pieta_(elsword) -> noah_ebalon

1. Tale Spinner is new-ish(?) and was forgotten here.
2. Ainchase is simply known as "Ain" in the game, and many people recognize him as just "Ain."
3. Similar to 2
4. ^
5. Yet to be added here.

sadodere said:

1. Tale Spinner is new-ish(?) and was forgotten here.

When I had made the bur I went to check if there were any new 4th path, that path got annouced after i had made the bur.
I was planning to use this thread for future 4th paths anyways, since they're still being released

2. Ainchase is simply known as "Ain" in the game, and many people recognize him as just "Ain."
3. Similar to 2

I think it would be best to reverse the alias. There are some ridiculous tags such as Luciela R. Sourcream, from before it was decided that recognizable short name > obscure full name.

Username_Hidden said:

When I had made the bur I went to check if there were any new 4th path, that path got annouced after i had made the bur.
I was planning to use this thread for future 4th paths anyways, since they're still being released

I think it would be best to reverse the alias. There are some ridiculous tags such as Luciela R. Sourcream, from before it was decided that recognizable short name > obscure full name.

For Ain (and Lu) sure. The game also already has Add and Rose that are not tagged under their actual names and should stay as they are.

But not for the others. Incidentally, Noah (elsword) should be aliased to Noah Ebalon.

skylightcrystal said:

But not for the others. Incidentally, Noah (elsword) should be aliased to Noah Ebalon.

Why? If we shorten half of them, it's better to shorten all of them for consistency.
I barely remember most characters' second name as a former player, I don't think anything would be lost.

Username_Hidden said:

Why? If we shorten half of them, it's better to shorten all of them for consistency.
I barely remember most characters' second name as a former player, I don't think anything would be lost.

Because the reasoning to use short forms doesn't apply to them. Unlike the four I mentioned they aren't referred to by nicknames or shortened forms of their name - it's just a case of first name vs first name and surname. There's no more reason to use just the first names for those characters than there is for almost any other character from any series. In fact arguably less than most given that Chung, Ara, Noah and Aisha have core parts of their story revolving around their family, with their family names being relevant to this and coming up frequently, and Ara in particular refers to herself as "Ara Haan" all the time in her in game lines.

Even "Luciela" (although not Luciela R. Sourcream) comes up in the story a lot in the more recent regions, but she's referred to by the other characters and all the UI as Lu so that makes more sense.

Username_Hidden said:

When I had made the bur I went to check if there were any new 4th path, that path got annouced after i had made the bur.
I was planning to use this thread for future 4th paths anyways, since they're still being released

I think it would be best to reverse the alias. There are some ridiculous tags such as Luciela R. Sourcream, from before it was decided that recognizable short name > obscure full name.

I wouldn't say it's "obscure" names. Since they have official full names that come up a lot, I'd personally think that it's better we use full names. The shortened ones are just for people who have bad memory such as myself.

BUR #11109 has been rejected.

create alias luciela_r._sourcream -> lu_(elsword)

Alias reversal

sadodere said:

I wouldn't say it's "obscure" names. Since they have official full names that come up a lot, I'd personally think that it's better we use full names. The shortened ones are just for people who have bad memory such as myself.

My main concern was making things easier for people who might upload/garden Elsword tags without knowing much about the series, but I might have gone overboard.

Username_Hidden said:

BUR #11109 has been rejected.

create alias luciela_r._sourcream -> lu_(elsword)

Alias reversal

I disagree with this still.

Luciela's full name is what she's known by. A qualifier isn't needed for a character with a full, unique name.

My main concern was making things easier for people who might upload/garden Elsword tags without knowing much about the series, but I might have gone overboard.

That's why "Lu_(elsword) is an alias for her full name. When people look up "Lu_(elsword)" and try to tag it, the proper name will come up.

sadodere said:

Luciela's full name is what she's known by. A qualifier isn't needed for a character with a full, unique name.

That approach has already been discussed in topic #18638, and the resolution was to avoid using full names if they're not well-known.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from a quick search on the wiki, "Luciela R. Sourcream" appears only in these four different instances.

Lu_(Elsword) is shorter, easier to remember, and better-looking.

Username_Hidden said:

That approach has already been discussed in topic #18638, and the resolution was to avoid using full names if they're not well-known.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from a quick search on the wiki, "Luciela R. Sourcream" appears only in these four different instances.

Lu_(Elsword) is shorter, easier to remember, and better-looking.

The name isn't "not well-known," as you put it.

"Lu" as an alias is perfect for this case. It doesn't "look" better at all. You can literally type in "Lu" when adding tags and boom, there it is. That's what the alias is for.

As someone who actually plays the game, "Lu" is just part of the nickname she shares with Ciel. Her full name is known.

The Elsword wiki calls her "Lu" and so does most material a cursory Google search reveals. If Lu is what people are commonly calling her then it should be what we use as well. If you can point to evidence to the contrary beyond just claiming Username_Hidden is wrong then feel free to post it here, otherwise it just sounds like you don't actually have any reason to want this beyond your own preference. Which is fine, but if it goes against the majority opinion then without proper justification it won't be kept as you wish.

Talulah said:

The Elsword wiki calls her "Lu" and so does most material a cursory Google search reveals. If Lu is what people are commonly calling her then it should be what we use as well. If you can point to evidence to the contrary beyond just claiming Username_Hidden is wrong then feel free to post it here, otherwise it just sounds like you don't actually have any reason to want this beyond your own preference. Which is fine, but if it goes against the majority opinion then without proper justification it won't be kept as you wish.

This isn't my own preference. Skylightcrystal believes the same as myself.

Let me try to explain it all.... in-game, Luciela and Ciel are two separate beings. However, they're treated as the same person in many regards throughout the gameplay. If you choose to play Luciela, you automatically play as Ciel as well: like a two-in-one deal. The game calls the duo "LU/CIEL" for that reason. However, "Lu" is only a nickname and not Luciela's name: she's referred to Lu by many because she's the "LU" of "LU/CIEL". That's why the wiki has "Lu/Ciel" on the same page.

As I mentioned before, "lu_(elsword)" should be an alias of "Luciela R. Sourcream." When people type in "lu_(elsword)", her full name will be listed: changing it to a rename would be pointless. She has a full canon name, unlike "Ciel" who has no last name which is why he just has ciel_(elsword).

I have been on this site long enough to understand how aliases work. If you do not wish to address any of the points Username Hidden or myself have made beyond insisting that we should use the full name for unknown reasons, then you clearly do not understand the point being made and continuing this discussion is pointless.

Talulah said:

I have been on this site long enough to understand how aliases work. If you do not wish to address any of the points Username Hidden or myself have made beyond insisting that we should use the full name for unknown reasons, then you clearly do not understand the point being made and continuing this discussion is pointless.

I did explain why I believe the full name should be used, though? In my eyes, renaming the tag is just useless. Lu is a nickname. She has a full name that's important in the game itself. Maybe "Luciela_(Elsword)" would be better, as it isn't just a nickname.

I'm not going to say more on that topic though. No point in arguing, I'll just go along with what you want here.

For Noah, he's referred to as Noah Ebalon frequently and it's what he's known as. Ain and Ara's full names are also pretty well known, but it wouldn't hurt to rename Ain's tag as "Ain_(elsword)" if you plan to change Luciela's (because it's hard to remember).

Anyone who plays the game and pays the slightest attention will know that Lu's name is Luciela and that Ain's name is Ainchase. As such if left to me they would both have their full names.

They aren't in the same situation as Rose whose real name you won't ever even find out if you don't play her, or Add who you will but only (if I remember right) in a single quest's dialogue.

Luciela is used repeatedly in the quests dealing with Aegirp, and the name Ainchase Ishmael is of course said in the intro of Ain's master road dungeon (which isn't limited to just Ain). Both also show up at various other points in the story.

But the default name used both in game and in the community for the characters are Lu and Ain.

It's not a clear-cut situation either way, to be honest. But I can't help but think that changing to the shorter form would set a precedent that would presumably affect hundreds of other characters who everyone knows their full name but who are usually referred to as a shortened form and result in the creation of masses of name_(copyright) type tags.

To sadodere - I don't think anyone is questioning Noah Ebalon at this point.