Tamamo JK = Tamamo no Mae's costume

BUR #8478 has been approved by @evazion.

create alias tamamo_jk_(fate) -> tamamo_no_mae_(jk)_(fate)
create implication tamamo_no_mae_(jk)_(fate) -> tamamo_no_mae_(fate/extra)

Since Tamamo JK never been confirmed as actual character.
(Nothing more than just a joke character for Tamamo no Mae to obtain her costume in Fate/EXTELLA and never been mention again.)
I think it better to convert this tag to be Tamamo No Mae's costume as most of the arts technically just Tamamo No Mae in school uniform.

Edit: There're 50+ post of tamamo_jk_(fate) has been tagged with tamamo_no_mae_(fate/extra)
And there're also tamamo_no_mae_(traveling outfit)_(fate) that's dedicated as character tag for costume.

I agree, you could argue she's a full fledged character because the scene she appears in tells she's Tamamo, but not one of the Nine.

Itt's a short special scene unlocked through bond, as you said, to unlock the costume, and she hasn't appeared anywhere else in the franchise though.

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The bulk update request #8478 (forum #203413) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

The bulk update request #8478 (forum #203413) has been approved by @evazion.

@evazion this tag now implicates both tamamo_(fate) and tamamo_no_mae_(fate/extra), which one should get removed?

Now that I think about it again, Tamamo JK is still kinda being considered a separate character. Costumes from other franchises become char tags in an organized way, but since Fate has umbrella tags due to multiple variants of the same character, things get confusing.

There are some discrepancies like wicked_dragon_witch_ver._shinjuku_1999 being a gen tag and jeanne_d'arc_(alter)_(festival_outfit)_(fate) a chartag, we have lostroom_outfit_(fate) for a dozen of costumes and some costumes like post #4005295 and post #5067730 - which are CCC/EXTELLA costumes - don't have tags.

Laudividni said:

Now that I think about it again, Tamamo JK is still kinda being considered a separate character. Costumes from other franchises become char tags in an organized way, but since Fate has umbrella tags due to multiple variants of the same character, things get confusing.

There are some discrepancies like wicked_dragon_witch_ver._shinjuku_1999 being a gen tag and jeanne_d'arc_(alter)_(festival_outfit)_(fate) a chartag, we have lostroom_outfit_(fate) for a dozen of costumes and some costumes like post #4005295 and post #5067730 - which are CCC/EXTELLA costumes - don't have tags.

The various gentags are in the process of being turned into character tags but it's a slow and painstaking process, I think @Benit149 (among others?) have been doing that.
Wicked Dragon Witch was supposed to be turned into a character tag as well in topic #19423, but that one was put on hold when I brought up the issue of Fate's costume implications with umbrella tags (see my posts in that topic and topic #19438) and then it was just left like that for the time being. There are some other chartags (such as Festival Outfit you linked) that also don't have implications going either because of the spaghetti mess that is Fate chartags and umbrellas and implications.

Astolfo said:

The various gentags are in the process of being turned into character tags but it's a slow and painstaking process, I think @Benit149 (among others?) have been doing that.
Wicked Dragon Witch was supposed to be turned into a character tag as well in topic #19423, but that one was put on hold when I brought up the issue of Fate's costume implications with umbrella tags (see my posts in that topic and topic #19438) and then it was just left like that for the time being. There are some other chartags (such as Festival Outfit you linked) that also don't have implications going either because of the spaghetti mess that is Fate chartags and umbrellas and implications.

Yep, thanks for reminding me. I was thinking if the JK costume tag should exist or stay implicated to Tamamo no Mae (Fate/EXTRA) without elaborating further.

If it's kept as a general tag, it's inconsistent with those becoming character tags. If the umbrella implication is removed, it's still implicated due to the other. If the other is removed, if feels more like a character than a costume imo.

Laudividni said:

Yep, thanks for reminding me. I was thinking if the JK costume tag should exist or stay implicated to Tamamo no Mae (Fate/EXTRA) without elaborating further.

If it's kept as a general tag, it's inconsistent with those becoming character tags. If the umbrella implication is removed, it's still implicated due to the other. If the other is removed, if feels more like a character than a costume imo.

Yeah, the whole "it's not a separate character it's a costume" is why I've tried to advocate for nested implications.

Yeah I'll revert the implication, I didn't realize it already implied Tamamo (Fate).

The rule is that *_(fate) is the catchall tag for every appearance of a character, and each unique visual appearance of a character like Tamamo no Mae (JK) or Tamamo no Mae (Fate/Extra) implies the base tag.

I really, really don't care about these "X is just a costume not a real character" arguments. For one thing, nearly everything in Fate that starts out as "just a costume" or "just a joke character" eventually becomes a real standalone character. Mark my words. For another, half the time it hinges on arguments like "N hours into the game there's an optional unlockable scene with a throwaway line that hints she's actually a full-fledged character, and no I won't link the scene or cite any sources, you just have to play the whole game yourself to know what I'm talking about". I'm sorry but I'm not spending hundreds of hours playing Fate just to verify what you're talking about. Please cite your sources or explain it like I'm five. The reason these threads are so difficult to resolve is because the people who know Fate can never cite their sources or explain the situation in simple terms that a person who doesn't have hundreds of hours in Fate can understand.

BUR #8958 has been approved by @evazion.

remove implication tamamo_no_mae_(jk)_(fate) -> tamamo_no_mae_(fate/extra)

As above.

The bulk update request #8958 (forum #205989) has been approved by @evazion.

evazion said:
I really, really don't care about these "X is just a costume not a real character" arguments. For one thing, nearly everything in Fate that starts out as "just a costume" or "just a joke character" eventually becomes a real standalone character. Mark my words.

True. This is the scene we were talking about.

Astolfo said:

The various gentags are in the process of being turned into character tags but it's a slow and painstaking process, I think @Benit149 (among others?) have been doing that.
Wicked Dragon Witch was supposed to be turned into a character tag as well in topic #19423, but that one was put on hold when I brought up the issue of Fate's costume implications with umbrella tags (see my posts in that topic and topic #19438) and then it was just left like that for the time being. There are some other chartags (such as Festival Outfit you linked) that also don't have implications going either because of the spaghetti mess that is Fate chartags and umbrellas and implications.

I’m handling the two Ritsukas for now. I finished populating chaldea uniform on Female Ritsuka, and will move on to Male Ritsuka. Then any nonstandard outfits will be given alternate costume before I’m done with them. I’ll basically do the same with other characters as well. It is a very slow process though, considering the number of characters and various outfits they have, never mind other IRL obligations I have. I’m staying far away from characters like Tamamo, Artoria, and Jeanne due to the massive influx of variants-of-variants-of-variants going on with them and the absolute headache they’ve caused for tagging (Mysterious Idol X, anyone?).

evazion said:

I really, really don't care about these "X is just a costume not a real character" arguments. For one thing, nearly everything in Fate that starts out as "just a costume" or "just a joke character" eventually becomes a real standalone character.

Yeah, I know that some of them is and some of them not, even myself who familiar with this series it's still hard to tell.

But for Tamamo JK it's has been 5 years since she was mentioned in Fate/EXTELLA.
She's never been appear or mention again after that or in any the other fate series's work.

Since this character don't have an actual name, has no obvious difference or confirmed as a separate character via any series's sources material itself.
Give a dedicated tags for this character kinda unnecessary.
Yeah, just for now. Until Type-Moon done something weird again.

(And on pixiv almost every art of Tamamo in school uniform always tagged as Casko or Tamamo no Mae.)

evazion said:

Please cite your sources or explain it like I'm five. The reason these threads are so difficult to resolve is because the people who know Fate can never cite their sources or explain the situation in simple terms that a person who doesn't have hundreds of hours in Fate can understand.

Sorry, my mistake.
I should left the link to that scene. (Which is now already provided by @Laudividni above.)

@evazion Also, thank you for your approval.