How about deleting some Touhou?

Soooo. We have this old complaint of "but you accept any toho crap lol", and truth be told, we do have buttloads of mediocre Touhou art, often approved (or uploaded by contributors) even though it's clearly sub-par compared to non-Touhou content. I think it'd be healthy to weed some of that out.

Therefeore, how about we make a thread, a'la the deletion appeal one, dedicated specifically to bringing up bad Touhou posts? Ie. people could drop post numbers there, optionally discuss for/against, and then mods would at their discretion either delete them or not. That would be more public than just flagging things for deletion, plus it'd disarm some of the "anything goes in touhou" sentiments, as well as "it's useless to fight against toehoes, it'll be approved anyway".

Oh, and before you jump at me for being some kind of anti-Touhou power freak, take a look at fav:葉月 touhou. I do like 'em tohos a lot, I just don't think it alone is a reason enough for each and every post to be accepted.

Just about everything under touhou poorly_drawn user:r0d3n7z is burnable, IMHO. How they lasted so long confounds me.

[Edit by 葉月]: you can insert direct queries by surrounding them with double curly brackets (ie. {}). I did that for you.

"plus it'd disarm some of the "anything goes in touhou" sentiments"

I know you're too smart to really be this shockingly naive. Don't give in to the ridiculous anti-Touhou bandwagon bullshit people spew. Anything that gets popular has its share of "wah wah there's too much [insert show/property]". I've read the same crap about Vocaloid too.

jxh2154 said:
I know you're too smart to really be this shockingly naive. Don't give in to the ridiculous anti-Touhou bandwagon bullshit people spew.

Nah, I don't think they're all valid complaints. I just mean that the few reasonable people in there could have a legitimate venue to report objectionable posts, and it'd simply show that we do sometimes delete toehoes. I'm not trying to convert the idiots, that'd be silly. That, and they do have a point sometimes.

I'm not super pro-touhou (in fact my standing policy for touhou stuff in the mod-queue has been to let someone else approve it unless it is absolutely stellar), but I don't particularly like "nuke this tag" threads either. I think if something's truly worthy of deletion it should just go through the flag for deletion system like everything else. No need to start a witch hunt.

葉月 said: Nah, I don't think they're all valid complaints. I just mean that the few reasonable people in there could have a legitimate venue to report objectionable posts, and it'd simply show that we do sometimes delete toehoes. I'm not trying to convert the idiots, that'd be silly. That, and they do have a point sometimes

If there's a problem with a mod approving bad art, or a contributor uploading crap, then dealing with that person is much more efficient than having a thread dedicated to singling out one series. *Especially* one series that is very trendy to hate on here, which lets this thread open a venting floodgate for trolls to swarm into.

We're not even talking about a specific visual element or file type or art style or fetish or anything else particularly visually unique here. Instead it's just a set of characters, who can be and are drawn in any art style imaginable by any artist depicting just about anything. Nothing that is relevant to moderation links Touhou images together in a special way.

Nor does Touhou have a higher percentage of bad art than anything else with a fair number of posts. If anything, it would just have a higher *absolute* number simply because there's so much more Touhou than anything else.

Kayako said:
Just about everything under touhou poorly_drawn user:r0d3n7z is burnable, IMHO. How they lasted so long confounds me.

Yep, I think I've tagged them all as poorly_drawn myself, too. "Why" is in large part answered by "the mod queue still sucks for mass deletions, even after numerous complaints from me about the fact". So it was easier for me to tag script them with bad_art and wait until (perhaps) one day we get a sane purge tool.

jxh2154 said:
If there's a problem with a mod approving bad art, or a contributor uploading crap, then dealing with that person is much more efficient than having a thread dedicated to singling out one series.

I have no way of knowing who approved what, however. Maybe it's visible for admins, but mods don't get to see that, and for good reasons.

Nothing that is relevant to moderation links Touhou images together in a special way.

Nor does Touhou have a higher percentage of bad art than anything else with a fair number of posts.

I'm not sure about that. I'm a Touhou person, and so I know I'm biased to rate anything related slightly higher, but even I can't help but notice some of the mediocre art that inexplicably gets accepted. And I do believe it *is* in fact a higher percentage than for other posts.

If there is to be a thread such as this, I don't think it should target any single thing. It would have to allow ANY picture to be put up for secondary review. Just remember, any such thread will only increase mod workload, which is something that I understand many just don't want.

I agree there is some mediocre Touhou artwork that gets posted, but I also think that jxh2154 is right that it only seems like more due to the sheer amount of it.

Slightly off topic, anybody that thinks that anything Touhou gets accepted, please search 東方 on pixiv and upload everything you see there, and watch how much gets deleted. There is a TON of bad Touhou art on pixiv that will never see danbooru.

Pixiv is just Japanese Deviantart, after all.

Please don't actually go and do that though, we get enough bad art as it is!

On topic, I think we should just flag stuff. Having a thread devoted to deleting images is just public execution in my opinion. If there's really that much crap stuff in Touhou (very possible), maybe we should go through the tag each weekend and flag a dozen or so stragglers.

We should not pick on a particular tag because it's popular. Those are my 2 cents.

May the gods of beer and touhou strike you all. That's my second 2cents.

Shinjidude said:
I think if something's truly worthy of deletion it should just go through the flag for deletion system like everything else. No need to start a witch hunt.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Kayako said:
Just about everything under touhou poorly_drawn user:r0d3n7z is burnable, IMHO.

I wouldn't consider the art to be poorly drawn myself, honestly. The style there is very sloppy, loose, and, probably unintentionally, creepy, but the artist does seem to have at least some skill.

Oddly, there are some much better pieces on the artist's pixiv page, compared to what has been uploaded to Danbooru.

Then again, this might also be why I haven't submitted an application for being a janitor; I can be quite lenient and indecisive.

EDIT: I just noticed there's actually two separate artists in the link there, but after going through the other one's pixiv, my comments are curiously mirrored.

The very first Touhou image posted on here is mediocre. How about deleting that?

Xephina said: The very first Touhou image posted on here is mediocre. How about deleting that?

It's pretty meaningless to worry about this for really old images. A very significant percentage of the site in general from more than a year, year and a half ago would not pass the queue today. I think the whole idea of this thread is somewhat misguided, but at the very least only fairly recent posts are of any real relevance.

I'm with Shinjidude.

Shinjidude said:
I think if something's truly worthy of deletion it should just go through the flag for deletion system like everything else.

The flag for deletion system works well for things that are flagrantly bad or rule violating, but it's a little unfair for posts that are of borderline quality. The premise of the modqueue is that every janitor/mod has to dislike a post for it to be deleted, but with the flag for deletion system a post gets deleted if only one person on the modteam dislikes it enough. At least with a forum thread there can be a little discussion so that it's not a completely unilateral decision.

On the other hand, publicly singling out other people for their uploads could easily start a bunch of butthurt and e-drama, so I dunno.

evazion said:
The flag for deletion system works well for things that are flagrantly bad or rule violating, but it's a little unfair for posts that are of borderline quality. The premise of the modqueue is that every janitor/mod has to dislike a post for it to be deleted, but with the flag for deletion system a post gets deleted if only one person on the modteam dislikes it enough. At least with a forum thread there can be a little discussion so that it's not a completely unilateral decision.

Yeah, that's pretty much the motivation behind having a special thread instead of just flagging. With flagging, it's pretty much mano-a-mano. A single flagger, and a single mod deciding to delete or unflag it. That doesn't really work for posts that are sloppy but not eye-gougingly bad, and doesn't lend itself well to cases like entire artists (hello, samurai_(pixiv)) just being consistently mediocre.

To see if there is any truth in 葉月's hypothesis, I went through a few pages of recent posts on Safebooru, taking note of which posts I thought were pointless ("skip" below) and which were tagged with touhou. I looked at the actual posts, not the thumbnails, and tried to avoid any bias pro or against touhou.

NOTE: if you try those id range searches on Danbooru, you'll get more posts than I did, so your results will be different. If you want to reproduce the experiment, run the queries on safebooru.donmai.us.

id:456225..456247 (20 posts)
skip post #456246 post #456245 post #456240 post #456228
toho post #456245 post #456237 post #456228
tot 3/20 skip 2/4

id:456189..456224 (20 posts)
skip post #456222 post #456217 post #456208 post #456202
toho post #456222 post #456210 post #456208 post #456207 post #456202
tot 5/20 skip 3/4

id:456157..456188 (20 posts)
skip post #456185 post #456159 post #456157
toho post #456187 post #456185 post #456183 post #456162 post #456159 post #456158 post #456157
tot 7/20 skip 3/3

id:456121..456156 (20 posts)
skip post #456146 post #456139 post #456132 (pending)
toho post #456154 post #456145 post #456142 post #456139 post #456126 post #456125 post #456124 post #456123 post #456122
tot 9/20 skip 1/3

Touhou ratio over all posts: 24/80=0.30
Touhou ratio over skipped posts: 9/14=0.64

My results seem to support 葉月's observation. Touhou posts make up 30% of all posts I checked, but 64% of those I rejected. It would seem that approvers are more inclined to accept otherwise boring posts if they contain Touhou characters.