Girls' frontline -copyright tags

Since Girls' frontline neural cloud has been out for a week or so and artworks presumably start to dribble, i think it a good time to bring up the matter of the copyright tags.

Girls' frontline is obviously used for the Girls' frontline, Girls' frontline 1, gfl, gfl1 or however you'd like to refer it, but some also seem to use it as a series -tag for the prequels, sequels and spinoffs.
I'd think it would be appropriate to create Girls'_frontline_(series), and implicate all the other gfl copyright tags into it, so you can search gfl1 works with Girls' frontline and not have neural cloud and exilium popping in and so on.

If this gets done now, there is only need for minimal gardening since posts for the other games is not yet so numerous.

Yes? No?

We have three options for a solution here:
1) the one you brought up, creating a girls'_frontline_(series) tag which can encompass the original game, the spinoffs and the sequel; would probably be among the simpler solutions, as you can just plop it on all posts under Girls' Frontline at the moment and do some minimal gardening.
2) creating a girls'_frontline_(game) tag and turning Girls' Frontline into a series tag by itself; would require far more gardening, being the most intense solution here, but it would keep the overall tag looking clean; or alternatively just alias the spinoffs and sequel and just not care for the consequences (especially as one could wonder to what extent some characters from NC or GFL2 would be popular enough to flood the tag).
3) repurposing the Reverse Collapse (series) tag, and turning it into a general series tag rather than one just used for in-series crossovers and the Codename: Bakery Girl remake; would be similar to 1), as it would necessitate adding it to all posts under Girls' Frontline, and still require the same amount of gardening as 1), but would theoretically avoid having to create a new tag (assuming a new tag isn't made to distinguish between the original Bakery Girl and its remake).

Of course, there are some side problems to consider as well, which could have different answers depending on the approach that we take; for instance, the issue of whether or not those characters appearing in NC from GFL should receive another chartag dedicated to NC, because they'll often have different attires/designs, and of course, the aforementioned potential flooding issue.

BUR #7419 has been rejected.

create implication girls'_frontline -> girls'_frontline_(series)
create implication girls'_frontline_neural_cloud -> girls'_frontline_(series)
create implication girls'_frontline_2:_exilium -> girls'_frontline_(series)
create implication girls'_frontline_glitch_land -> girls'_frontline_(series)

Girls' frontline is obviously used for the Girls' frontline, Girls' frontline 1, gfl, gfl1 or however you'd like to refer it, but some also seem to use it as a series -tag for the prequels, sequels and spinoffs.
I'd think it would be appropriate to create Girls'_frontline_(series), and implicate all the other gfl copyright tags into it, so you can search gfl1 works with Girls' frontline and not have neural cloud and exilium popping in and so on.

I do think we need a series tag and girls'_frontline_(series) is probably fine, since I don't really have a better suggestion. It's mostly how people refer to the series anyway. But I think we should probably leave off codename:_bakery_girl from the implications though. It does take place in the same universe, but it's distinctly different from the others and it seems odd to tag it with girls'_frontline_(series). It may make more sense to add it if the remake changes things later though.

Also, I don't think reverse_collapse_(series) is a good option since it's generally only associated with codename:_bakery_girl and virtually nobody uses it for girls'_frontline in general.

eidolon said:

Also, I don't think reverse_collapse_(series) is a good option since it's generally only associated with codename:_bakery_girl and virtually nobody uses it for girls'_frontline in general.

While this is true now, this could always change after the release of Chapter 13 on the English server, capping off the story as it had been developing since Singularity with an instance of Reverse Collapse occurring, before heading into the current 'season' that the older servers are in, so it is possible the nomenclature for the series in a wider sense becomes Reverse Collapse, especially if they decide to follow up the Bakery Girl remake (besides, it isn't like we don't have encompassing copytags that have names only the big nerds would be familiar with, i.e. Legendarium).

Otherwise though, yeah, as you said, Girls' Frontline (series) is probably fine, and I can't think of a better suggestion myself. Plus, if a shift in nomenclature does occur, we can always just alias that tag to the other for a seamless fit.

I don't like the idea of making an umbrella tag that will be 99.9% identical to one implicated tag. All these other series combined had 51 posts in the last month, compared with 1k posts for the main game, so the odds of any other game showing up in a girls' frontline search are abysmal.

I'd wait and see if the other copyrights gain traction before creating an umbrella tag.

Coincidentally this reminds me of the situation we had with princess connect!: topic #18515.

nonamethanks said:

I don't like the idea of making an umbrella tag that will be 99.9% identical to one implicated tag.

Same. Compare it also to Kantai Collection, which has Kantai Collection (anime) and Kancolle Arcade, but we don't have a Kantai Collection (series) tag. Admittedly those share characters with the main game and I guess the GFL spinoffs don't, but still.

nonamethanks said:

I don't like the idea of making an umbrella tag that will be 99.9% identical to one implicated tag. All these other series combined had 51 posts in the last month, compared with 1k posts for the main game, so the odds of any other game showing up in a girls' frontline search are abysmal.

I'd wait and see if the other copyrights gain traction before creating an umbrella tag.

The whole point is to do it now so there is less to clean up later, and you can just undo the change if it proves to be pointless.
It's worth noting that at the moment only PNC is released, and only in china currently. And revenue numbers for the launch month (or rather last week of the month) have been quite promising making around 4x what the GFL1 made combined from all regions for the whole month.

evazion said:

Same. Compare it also to Kantai Collection, which has Kantai Collection (anime) and Kancolle Arcade, but we don't have a Kantai Collection (series) tag. Admittedly those share characters with the main game and I guess the GFL spinoffs don't, but still.

I don't think that's a fair comparison. Arcade is basically has same everything but the gameplay is well gameplay (i don't know what genre to call it) instead of browser game's rng simulator. And anime adaption is well, anime adaption.

GFL games have mostly different characters between games barring fistfull of recurring characters.

The difference is that if we do nothing now and fix it later we don't lose anything, while if we approve this now and have to remove it later it means roughly 80k post changes for nothing, and a popular copyright having a superfluous change of naming that people will have to get used to twice.

The bulk update request #7419 (forum #197706) has been rejected by @nonamethanks.

BUR #34528 is pending approval.

create implication girls'_frontline -> reverse_collapse_(series)
create implication girls'_frontline_neural_cloud -> reverse_collapse_(series)
create implication girls'_frontline_2:_exilium -> reverse_collapse_(series)
create implication girls'_frontline_glitch_land -> reverse_collapse_(series)
create implication codename:_bakery_girl -> reverse_collapse_(series)
create alias girls'_frontline_(series) -> reverse_collapse_(series)
create alias reverse_collapse:_code_name_bakery -> codename:_bakery_girl

I'm going to shoot my shot again for my Reverse Collapse (series) solution again here, because in the three years since, my stance has been affirmed greatly.

As an update, in the time since the previous BUR, Neural Cloud released internationall, Girls' Frontline 2 released in China, Bakery Girl's rename, "Reverse Collapse: Codename Bakery" finally released, and Girls' Frontline 2 made its international debut. The GFL1 spoiler I had brought up three years ago holds true, and an event this year in the game honed in on what happened after that instance of Reverse Collapse, in the form of the event 'Cartesian Theatre'. Lore elements introduced in GFL were ported back to Bakery Girl's remake, just as GFL had taken from Bakery Girl (most notably in what is essentially the franchise's overarching individual villain, William). With GFL2 set in 2074, anticipation exists on more lore elements being introduced from Bakery Girl as the game's story progresses (as GFL1 spanned from 2062 to 2064), whether it be the return of William, or the re-emergence of the Antarctic Hollow City in 2075, or the launch of the Three Goddesses project and the formation of the Antarctic Union in 2078. The anticipation is so high that characters being shown off for an event rework got compared to the protags of Bakery Girl.

On the post front, looking at things since July, Girls' Frontline has been flucuating between 80 and 220 posts, with an average of around 150 posts. Isolating it to just Girls' Frontline 2: Exilium, it's only since the server's EN release back on the 3rd that uploads have started rising significantly, with a current high of 70. Girls' Frontline Neural Cloud, the lesser-played spinoff, gets few uploads, generally hovering around 5 to 20 uploads (with GFL2 resembling that prior to its EN release). And Bakery Girl is not actually a gacha, but a purchaseable strategy RPG, so it doesn't have any regular uploads like the previous three. If GFL2's tempo keeps up, then it would begin consituting a significant portion of Girls' Frontline's posts, so there's a very clear necessity to separate it out so that people can use that tag for stuff specifically relating the original GFL.

So with the potential need for an actual series tag arising with GFL2's Global release, and the increasing lore interconnectivity between the GFL games and Bakery Girl, it just makes sense in my eyes to use Reverse Collapse as the series tag name. However, to ease users into it, making the alternate proposal of girls'_frontline_(series) a utility alias for Reverse Collapse just makes sense (and additionally, a utility alias for Bakery Girl using the remake's name).

There's an additional benefit to using Reverse Collapse relative to the discussion in forum #321451; as brought up by sycer, we'll be forced to confront the fact that, from GFL1 onward, many of the dolls will be referred to not with their gun name but by their real name, but the former is what is explicitly associated with their GFL1 appearance as well as what most users know them by (and in turn, what we use as their main tag). But with GFL2, this mentality could easily shift, bringing into question not just what their main tags should be called, but also how we should handle tagging their appearances in all the games to begin with (a question forced by the fact that returning dolls appearing in Neural Cloud received their own tags, ex. KSVK and Dushevnaya (Neural Cloud), due to the fact that all returning dolls are essentially in-universe alters).

As it stands, the GFL1 chartags are the main tags and everything gets lumped into there, so using KSVK/Dushevnaya as an example, if you want depictions of her from GFL1 explicitly, you need to remove both NC!Dushevnaya's chartag and, if sycer's proposal goes through, GFL2!Dushevnaya's chartag from your search (and then that brings in the additional issue of returning GFL1 skins in GFL2 and how to handle that tag-wise). And then there's the kicker that a handful of GFL1 dolls appeared in Bakery Girl's remake, such as IDW (post #6416526) and P2000 (seen here). So, using _(reverse_collapse) as a qualifier, we could make umbrella chartags which use the doll's real name and have subtags for their different designs in each game (if sycer's proposal of giving the GFL2 designs their own tags is seen as legitimate enough) - and resolving the skin issue, we just turn it that skin over to the umbrella chartag.

Personally I believe we should be implicating the series to Girls' Frontline (series) rather than Reverse Collapse (series) if we go through with this. While GF found it's footing in Operation Bakery Girl, it's the longer standing and gave what we known today of the world of GF. I also find it silly that we're trying to establish a umbrella tag with the name of the remake, "Reverse Collapse" that was remade and revamped with everything established in GF1, rather than more obscure Bakery Girl even though it was the founding for the series.
As for the characters, I firmly believe that we should alias all returning dolls to their GF1 tags. Whereas GF1 dolls and their NC counterparts are technically different, the returning dolls in GF2 are very much the same even if they are going under a different alias.

Kommandant said:

As for the characters, I firmly believe that we should alias all returning dolls to their GF1 tags. Whereas GF1 dolls and their NC counterparts are technically different, the returning dolls in GF2 are very much the same even if they are going under a different alias.

I think they should be aliased with GF2 names instead of GF1 gun names, or at least rename tags to their currently real names. They are basically their real names (and will be going forward, if Betty's/IDW's presance in Reverse Collapse says anything). Special cases, like Suomi and Springfield can remain the same as they are due to being the same names as before. They are not gun personifications, like they were in first years of GF1, and no one calls them by their gun names in any official promos and media of Exilium.

sycer13 said:

I think they should be aliased with GF2 names instead of GF1 gun names, or at least rename tags to their currently real names. They are basically their real names (and will be going forward, if Betty's/IDW's presance in Reverse Collapse says anything). Special cases, like Suomi and Springfield can remain the same as they are due to being the same names as before. They are not gun personifications, like they were in first years of GF1, and no one calls them by their gun names in any official promos and media of Exilium.

Alias to GF2 sounds like a terrible idea as you will get;

• MP40
• SVD
• Sabrina
• P90
• Groza

while they are no longer gun personifications in GF1 like they were in their starting years, they are still going by names of their etched weapons, like the case of Aliana and Amaris who are SCAR-L and SCAR-H respectively. Speaking of that, certain dolls like KVSK and Ots-14 has been referred to by their GF2 names in GF1 before. Aliasing GF2 -> GF1 or at very least implying GF2 -> GF1 makes more sense then doing inverse. (Though that brings up the minor headache of legacy outfits with the implications)

Kommandant said:

Alias to GF2 sounds like a terrible idea as you will get;

• MP40
• SVD
• Sabrina
• P90
• Groza

while they are no longer gun personifications in GF1 like they were in their starting years, they are still going by names of their etched weapons, like the case of Aliana and Amaris who are SCAR-L and SCAR-H respectively. Speaking of that, certain dolls like KVSK and Ots-14 has been referred to by their GF2 names in GF1 before. Aliasing GF2 -> GF1 or at very least implying GF2 -> GF1 makes more sense then doing inverse. (Though that brings up the minor headache of legacy outfits with the implications)

Then maybe basically rename the returning characters tags as they roll out to Exilium's global? They definetaly are not going to return to gun names (with rare occassions, when gun name sounds like a name) and the Exilium/NC names pressumable are going to be used from here onward in any future post GF2 (chronologically) media (Like the example with IDW/Betty above).

At the stage we're in with these new names and undecided umbrella copyrights, I think y'all are overlooking a simpler solution.

imply dushevnaya_(neural_cloud) -> dushevnaya_(micaverse)
imply ksvk_(girls'_frontline) -> dushevnaya_(reverse_collapse_(series))
imply dushevnaya_(girls'_frontline_2) -> dushnevnaya_(girls'_frontline_(series))

We could easily make umbrella tags for the characters like such- leaving the characters exclusive to one of those copyrights within that copyright. Or if one appears in both 1, and either 2 or NC- then that would just as easily solved by the umbrella chartag.

Downsides: A post like a nude reference, with zero other indicators of the game being referenced, could make some tagging troublesome.

Kommandant said:

While GF found it's footing in Operation Bakery Girl, it's the longer standing and gave what we known today of the world of GF. I also find it silly that we're trying to establish a umbrella tag with the name of the remake, "Reverse Collapse" that was remade and revamped with everything established in GF1, rather than more obscure Bakery Girl even though it was the founding for the series.

I'm not the only one in the community that has expressed their preference for "Reverse Collapse" as the series name. The preeminent lorehead, YZsFerrari, has not only expressed his preference for it, but ultimately anticipates it to become the series name officially (especially given how MICA, before the remake's release, kept apparently referring to a "Reverse Collapse series", either implying that there would be more after the remake's release, or that that is in fact the series name), though until then he just sticks with "Girls' Frontline-Reverse Collapse series" when talking about the lore.

Damian0358 said:

I'm not the only one in the community that has expressed their preference for "Reverse Collapse" as the series name. The preeminent lorehead, YZsFerrari, has not only expressed his preference for it, but ultimately anticipates it to become the series name officially (especially given how MICA, before the remake's release, kept apparently referring to a "Reverse Collapse series", either implying that there would be more after the remake's release, or that that is in fact the series name), though until then he just sticks with "Girls' Frontline-Reverse Collapse series" when talking about the lore.

YZsFerrari is a hack and his opinion holds no weight because he's not here discussing the tag proposal, we are. The encompassing title of the series being Reverse Collapse is mere speculation with little evidence indicating that is it meant to refer to Girls' Frontline as well.

Kommandant said:

YZsFerrari is a hack and his opinion holds no weight because he's not here discussing the tag proposal, we are. The encompassing title of the series being Reverse Collapse is mere speculation with little evidence indicating that is it meant to refer to Girls' Frontline as well.

His opinion does hold weight here, albeit not because of his community prominence, but because he represents the fact that there are those who in the community who view the series' name as being Reverse Collapse, especially those who lump together Code Name Bakery/Bakery Girl with the Girls' Frontline games. Given my BUR includes it too, then it makes sense for the umbrella series tag to reflect the most common name with it included. And there are those in the Chinese fanbase who use the term 逆向坍塌系列 to refer to the series as well when including Code Name Bakery/Bakery Girl (with 少女前线系列 only being used when excluding it). And as I said three years ago, the usage of Reverse Collapse here reflects similar tag name choices in Tolkien's Legendarium (as opposed to "The Lord of the Rings (series)", which is what most everyone else would think that series is called).

When something doesn't have an official name (in English or otherwise), often we'll look towards what the community/fandom itself uses to gauge relevance. A recent BUR proposing an alias for official character romanizations was specifically rejected because users expressed that no one in the fandom uses that romanization (forum #322640), to name a recent example of this sort of principle.