Change Nier:Automata characters to their nicknames part 2 electric boogaloo

BUR #6898 has been rejected.

create alias yorha_no._2_type_b -> 2b
create alias yorha_no._9_type_s -> 9s_(nier)
create alias yorha_infantry_squad_commander -> yorha_commander
create alias operator_6o -> 6o
create alias operator_21o -> 21o
create alias n2_(nier_automata) -> red_girl_(nier)

On suggestion of another user, i have resubmitted this BUR, with a few things changed.

The decision taken in topic #18638 was that shortened names may be used, if the full names are not easily avalable.
The only argument ever raised in topic #17094 was that 2B's full name (Yorha no.2 Type B) was easily-searchable.
But no argument was done for any other character.
So, I'm going to do the research myself on where are the names of characters other than 2B and 9S used.
There will be unmarked spoilers for ease of reading.

• We already know 2B, 9S and A2's full names, so i'm gonna skip over them
• Searching for Yorha Infantry Squad Commander on Google mainly brings cosplay content. I haven't been able to find that name anywhere, so i'm going to assume that is a translation of the full japanese name.

Her official name is "Yorha Commander". She is also known as just Commander or Commander White (Again, i haven't been able to dig more information about this. The wiki calls her so, but the site looks a bit wonky, so i wouldn't rely on that.)

• The official artbook calls the characters by their shortened names: 2B, 9S, Commander, A2, and Red Girl (Her name is "Red Girl" in japanese too, known as N2 on Danbooru for reasons explained below). Operator 21O/6O are an exception.
• The same applies to the in-game intel page (you can browse it here), with the exception that Operators 21O and 6O are just called by their shortened codename.

I find this a particularly interesting page, and i'm going to use N2 as an example.
The nickname used for her throughout the game is "Red Girl". The only way to see her mentioned as N2 is through an optional intel file you get at the very end of the game, which calls her both "Red Girls" and gives her the name "Codename N2".
There is another optional Intel file, also called "Red Girl", which reveals her official name is "Terminal".
If we really want to keep full names because they're at least accessible somewhere, then N2 should logically be renamed Terminal_(nier), despite noone calling her as such.
This policy also adds inconsistency with how characters are named. Operator 21O's full name should logically be Yorha no.21 Type O, but because noone calls her as such in any official resource, she is just called 21O.

All of this is ignoring the missed search hits on Google, which apparently are a big deal for any other franchise.

n2 is an artist tag.

Slipped, fixed.

Username_Hidden said:

• Searching for Yorha Infantry Squad Commander on Google mainly brings cosplay content. I haven't been able to find that name anywhere, so i'm going to assume that is a translation of the full japanese name.

Her official name is "Yorha Commander". She is also known as just Commander or Commander White (Again, i haven't been able to dig more information about this. The wiki calls her so, but the site looks a bit wonky, so i wouldn't rely on that.)

Japanese calls her ヨルハ部隊司令官 (YoRHa Unit Commander), ヨルハ司令官 (YoRHa Commander), or ホワイト (White), or even ヨルハ部隊ホワイト司令官 (YoRHa Unit Commander White). First form is preferred as a tag on fanart websites. Official (out-of-game) sources seem to prefer using ヨルハ部隊司令官(ホワイト), "YoRHa Unit Commander (White)", to cover all bases.

Anyway, I'd second using YoRHa_Commander as her "chartag". Unique enough (no qualifier necessary) and easy to find by typing "Yorha".

"Yorha Infantry Squad Commander" seems to be a mistranslation started by merch sites with machine-translated English versions. Using some kind of outdated poorly-tuned machine translator, I'd assume (I suspect excite.jp). 部隊 can refer to a "squad" in the informal sense (because some military/police units are squad-sized), which is likely how their dataset got 'poisoned'. Another possibility are things like "American infantry squad equipment" getting translated into ...部隊... because the formal term for "squad" in Japanese just feels kinda awkward to read sometimes.

(She's definitely not infantry. Nor a "squad commander". 司令官/Shireikan implies some kind of higher-level position, like a task force commander or someone at battalion/regiment level and above. And YoRHa Commander is basically the leader of an entire military "special forces" unit.)

This feels like a trend that will quickly become a slippery slope, and maybe a bad idea especially when it reduces characters names to two characters long. Very few series consistently use character's full names all the time, and many characters are reliably called only by their first or last names only (even if the full name is canonical and well established). I'd tread carefully before making this a new general precedent.

Looking at other sites (particularly ones that don't depend on Danbooru for their tag names), and "Yorha no. 2 Type B" still seems to be almost ubiquitous as either the tag name, the title, or the initial mention of the character's name even if they often shorten it to "2B" later in extended discussion.

That doesn't make sense, even if that argument somewhat holds towards 2B, what about everyone else?
If I were to remove the playable trio, would you still disapprove of it?
It helps search results, it's more clear to people who haven't played the game or aren't fan of it. It helps consistency, because if we're using the full names for 2B, 9S and A2, then why are we not using every other character's full name too? Because they're not relevant? Why would you prefer using Yorha no. 2 Type B and Operator 21O at the same time?
By now everyone knows who "2B" is, it wouldn't be ambiguous, and if it was you can just add a qualifier.

I just can't understand why this BUR would be such a bad idea. Everyone is against it but I can't understand their reasoning.

We've been moving away for years from two/three-letter tags, qualifying them every single time because they're extremely prone to mistags and typos. We're not going to make a tag just called "2b" or "6o" now.

Username_Hidden said:

That doesn't make sense, even if that argument somewhat holds towards 2B, what about everyone else?
If I were to remove the playable trio, would you still disapprove of it?
It helps search results, it's more clear to people who haven't played the game or aren't fan of it. It helps consistency, because if we're using the full names for 2B, 9S and A2, then why are we not using every other character's full name too? Because they're not relevant? Why would you prefer using Yorha no. 2 Type B and Operator 21O at the same time?
By now everyone knows who "2B" is, it wouldn't be ambiguous, and if it was you can just add a qualifier.

I just can't understand why this BUR would be such a bad idea. Everyone is against it but I can't understand their reasoning.

I'm making the argument here that we shouldn't shorten any of these names. The issue in Genshin was that the names were hidden and inaccessible unless you unlocked content in the game. I don't think we should make it a general trend to drop names just because they aren't used often. Many many series only use the full name when first introducing a character. If we shortened them all to just the forename or surname they always go by we'd run into tons of ambiguity, in that case we'd do what, resort to copyright qualifiers? That'd be clunky, ugly, and redundant with the copyright tags also in-use on the post. I just see this going down a bad path. Autocomplete shouldn't be the be-all end-all for our policy decisions. We support wildcards, and people can use them if they're unsure of a part of a name.

Shinjidude said:

I'm making the argument here that we shouldn't shorten any of these names.

That is not possible.
Operator 21O is not called Yorha No. 21 Type O anywhere.
So the only option is turning it around.

There's rarely an "only option", we could also very easily just stick to the consistency and level of detail the series provides, even if that leaves different tags not looking identically patterned. I generally don't like deleting detail when it's not required. Bringing everything to the lowest common denominator just for consistency's sake doesn't seem like the best idea to me.

Then that leaves the question, what name should we use for the Red Girls?

Username_Hidden said:

That is not possible.
Operator 21O is not called Yorha No. 21 Type O anywhere.
So the only option is turning it around.

This is true, but she is called Operator 21O multiple times in game, in the form of unavoidable dialogue exchanges, as well as various online sources. Making the tag more prone to ambiguity doesn't strike me as all that better than the current situation.

Username_Hidden said:

Then that leaves the question, what name should we use for the Red Girls?

If they are called both "Red Girl" and "N2" in the game, then that alias is probably warranted, though I'm not familiar enough to say which direction makes more sense.

Shinjidude said:

If they are called both "Red Girl" and "N2" in the game, then that alias is probably warranted, though I'm not familiar enough to say which direction makes more sense.

If I remember correctly, they're exclusively called Red Girl in the crossover event in FFXIV. So we would end up using a nickname for a character, a fuller designation (Operator 21O) for another, and finally the full designation (Yorha blah blah) for another three.

By the way, I have made a short research, and i don't think 2P has ever been called Yorha No. 2 Type P. At least the FF Wiki doesn't mention her full name, unlike 2B and 9S.
A short search online only brings up retail sites and Danbooru itself.
If that turns out to be the case, we would end up with Yorha No. 2 Type B, and... 2P_(nier), i guess?
For reference, her name is literally just a pun on "Player 2". There is no P designation in the original game.

Username_Hidden said:

If I remember correctly, they're exclusively called Red Girl in the crossover event in FFXIV.

Well given what you said, plus the fact that at Pixiv there's a slight preference for "赤い少女" over "N2" (though it's close to 50% / 50% in usage), and the fact that "Red Girl" appears to be the preferred article name in English wikis and such, why don't we make the tag "Red Girl (N2)"?

BUR #6915 has been rejected.

create alias n2_(nier_automata) -> red_girl_(n2)

That would make it even more confusing. Name it red girl (nier), it would be more appropriate.

BUR #6925 has been rejected.

mass update n2 -> red_girl_(nier)
create alias n2_(nier) -> red_girl_(nier)
create alias yorha_infantry_squad_commander -> yorha_commander

Let's try this out then. Putting it to vote.
I removed all androids with short names from the original BUR.

The bulk update request #6898 (forum #195210) has been rejected by @Username_Hidden.