Tag proposal: female/male furry on human

On e-hentai you can search for only female furry porn by doing a "f:furry -m:furry" search, and the opposite as well.

We already have tags like futa on male/male on futa/futa with female etc, so imo it would make sense to have separate tags for male furry on non-furry female and female furry on non-furry male. When I'm searching for that kind of content for example I typically don't want to see female furries, and I can imagine that the opposite might be true for other users.

The only thing is that I would have no idea how to call these tags. furry on furry is easy, but male furry on female non-furry is way too long and unwieldy.
Thoughts?

BTW, I mean "human" as non-furry.

Other issues I can see with this idea is that there's a chance we'd end up with a lot of tags to catch all the possibilities (what do we tag furry on human yuri? just furry_on_human yuri? but then how do we differentiate between male on furry/female on furry?)

I think it could either be done by tagging furry_on_furry and then excluding that from a search, OR something like furry_on_human albeit the problem with this is that it would technically be incorrect if the non-furry also isn't human, eg. elf or this or that.

Maybe furry_on_humanoid? I guess furries can be qualified of humanoid but I've generally seen them more referred to as anthro, while humanoid refers to stuff like elves, orcs, and so on.

Instead of using a naming like male_furry_on_female non-furry, it might be better with something like furry_(m)_on_non-furry or similar. As you stated we have other tags like yuri, yaoi, and hetero that I think would make it so it's unnecessary to determine the gender that the furry character is with.

It might still be worth differentiating the gender of the furry though, as I would think that would fall under perhaps different niches that people may want to search separately for.

Yeah, human vs humanoid is a real issue, because you could argues furries are more humanoid than, say, centaurs, and yet technically a male furry penetrating a female centaur would fall under "furry on human(oid)".

NWF_Renim said:

Instead of using a naming like male_furry_on_female non-furry, it might be better with something like furry_(m)_on_non-furry or similar. As you stated we have other tags like yuri, yaoi, and hetero that I think would make it so it's unnecessary to determine the gender that the furry character is with.

It might still be worth differentiating the gender of the furry though, as I would think that would fall under perhaps different niches that people may want to search separately for.

Only qualm I have with this proposal is that furry_(m)_on_non-furry is a very ugly tag to look at. Maybe male furry with non-furry, female furry with non-furry, and furry with furry, to follow the various futa with female etc? the two furry with non-furry tags can then be implicated to interspecies, which is already the "generic" tag. One can search for furry interspecies if they want the generic thing with no degree of precision. We might have to make an utility alias furry with non-furry -> interspecies to further drive the point home.

E621 uses "anthro on x" and "x on anthro". To get what you're looking for, e621 uses "female on anthro" or "anthro on female", which is used in combination with "human on anthro" and its reverse.

I know bringing up that site is not exactly good form, but that's what these tags are. They are e621 tags.

Veradux said:

E621 uses "anthro on x" and "x on anthro". To get what you're looking for, e621 uses "female on anthro" or "anthro on female", which is used in combination with "human on anthro" and its reverse.

I know bringing up that site is not exactly good form, but that's what these tags are. They are e621 tags.

e621 users always overdo it, which is why they have a dozen different tags for every concept. We don't need all different combinations when a simple two-tag search with the proposed changes would be able to get every permutation.

Right now you can't even search for things that *should* be simple, like furry yuri or furry on human yaoi, because "interspecies" is an extremely noisy and very underused tag that includes monster girls, robots, pseudo-elves, people with red skin, etc.

People might get confused about having furry in the tag if they're expecting a dragon girl being banged or similar, perhaps going by anthro is the better choice as most people that have heard about the word know what it refers to.

These proposed tags are a rabbit hole that only leads to chaos. They're also confusing at first glance.

I would support the creation of male_furry and female_furry, but that's as far as I think we could go without falling into the abyss. This gives us the same functionality as e-hentai without creating a messy web of gender-specific sex tags.

nonamethanks said:

e621 users always overdo it, which is why they have a dozen different tags for every concept. We don't need all different combinations when a simple two-tag search with the proposed changes would be able to get every permutation.

Which is exactly why it probably be better to take a step back from the event horizon that the futa tags put us on rather than creating furry (m) on human (f) and all the permutations that would be required thereafter.

Right now you can't even search for things that *should* be simple, like furry yuri or furry on human yaoi, because "interspecies" is an extremely noisy and very underused tag that includes monster girls, robots, pseudo-elves, people with red skin, etc.

I've seen you complain about the interspecies tag being used for monster girls before and I want to support it, but that's a topic for another time.

Perhaps something along the lines of "male_furry" and "female_furry" would be a better start? It might devolve into "female animal" and "futa furry", but I think that would be far cleaner on the eyes and blacklists than the tag panic from the proposal.

Second on going for male_furry and female_furry for now. We'll see how people use them, then proceed from there, I guess?

male/female furry doesn't solve the issue of finding or filtering out yuri/yaoi though. Take a look at yaoi furry for example. It would be exactly the same as yaoi male_furry, and you'd still have to add or remove interspecies to be more precise. It's basically padding. And for female on furry for example you'd have to do hetero male_furry -female_furry and hope there's no mistags. It's a three tag search vs a potential single (or max two) tag search. That's not a solution.

It's even worse for female furry on non-furry, because of how often males are not tagged at all in porn pics, especially when there's only penises shown. female_furry -male_furry ~penis ~hetero ~sex ~oral? And you're still not guaranteed that'll be enough.

What's exactly wrong with specific fetish tags that cater to different people? These concepts are not exchangeable with small searches. It's not like a slippery slope where we suddenly have to make feral_on_bird_anthro or other nonsense, they're different fetishes for different tastes.

Lemme put it in more plain terms: personally, I find female furries disgusting 99.999% of the times, because the focus of drawn porn is often on the female, and I don't want to see what to me looks like an animal getting fucked. On the other hand, male furries and monsters in porn are almost never the focus, and they appeal to a very different fetish (usually it's the act of overpowering or corruption). Lumping them together helps no one. It's like having handjob and blowjob in the same tag because technically they look similar.

nonamethanks said:
It's not like a slippery slope where we suddenly have to make feral_on_bird_anthro or other nonsense, they're different fetishes for different tastes.

That's what someone said about the futa on male tags in reference to the tags being proposed.

If you're gonna do it, just bite the bullet and make all of them now instead of this piecemeal "NNT likes this concept" one week and "Vera likes this one" the next. Go to e621, grab their x on x tag list, gender them, go nuts.

Veradux said:

That's what someone said about the futa on male tags in reference to the tags being proposed.

This week there were 1.3k searches and around 250 IPs for male on futa, vs 5.9k and around 800 IPs for futa on male. That's a massive amount for tags that are only a few weeks old.
Users clearly like the distinction, so I don't see this as a negative point.

By comparison, futanari has some 150k searches and furry has ~50k, so they're not orders of magnitude apart.

Also a bit off-topic, here's the top 20 searches for both the futa tags: futa on male, male on futa

nonamethanks said:

This week there were 1.33k searches and around 250 IPs for male on futa, vs 5.96k and around 800 IPs for futa on male. That's a massive amount for tags that are only a few weeks old.
Users clearly like the distinction, so I don't see this as a negative point.

By comparison, futanari has some 150k searches and furry has ~50k, so they're not orders of magnitude apart.

Does that include blacklists and negative searches?

One potential pitfall (or opportunity from an other side) is if this would include anthro pokemons. As I recall the "are humanoid pokemons furry" debate petered out without a resolution.

I never said it was a negative. It's obvious known tag parlance from other sites like rule34 and e621 as well as a popular concept.

I'm saying if you're gonna do it, no more half-cocked measures. Add in "futa_on_female" and "male_on_animal/creature/feral". Add in all of them. No piecemeal "we won't add more after this" and then add more a few weeks later. Just Do It:tm:.

ion288 said:

Does that include blacklists and negative searches?

Added pictures. Blacklists are javascript-side so not included in the browsing analytics.
You can tell from the other tags that those two appeal to very different people.

One potential pitfall (or opportunity from an other side) is if this would include anthro pokemons. As I recall the "are humanoid pokemons furry" debate petered out without a resolution.

AFAIK pokemon are frequently tagged furry when in non-safe posts. lucario furry.

Veradux said:

I'm saying if you're gonna do it, no more half-cocked measures. Add in "futa_on_female" and "male_on_animal/creature/feral". Just Do It:tm:.

We already have futa with female. No need to split it even further since futa with female = female with futa, unless there's a strap-on, but then you can just add that tag.

nonamethanks said:

Yeah, human vs humanoid is a real issue, because you could argues furries are more humanoid than, say, centaurs, and yet technically a male furry penetrating a female centaur would fall under "furry on human(oid)".

At this point it becomes a matter of what term we want to use and how, because no solution will be perfect. If replacing "furry" with "anthro" makes something like anthro_with_humanoid more palatable and less "but furries are humanoids too........" then that's fine, but ultimately I don't think the tags themselves need to be complicated or handle every case or somesuch, unless I'm missing something. When you see "furry on humanoid" it's pretty obvious what it means, to me. Furry with non furry.
furry_with_humanoid already does the job of filtering out all the furry on furry stuff after which you can probably get what you want with an additional tag or two?

Astolfo said:

At this point it becomes a matter of what term we want to use and how, because no solution will be perfect. If replacing "furry" with "anthro" makes something like anthro_with_humanoid more palatable and less "but furries are humanoids too........" then that's fine, but ultimately I don't think the tags themselves need to be complicated or handle every case or somesuch, unless I'm missing something. When you see "furry on humanoid" it's pretty obvious what it means, to me. Furry with non furry.
furry_with_humanoid already does the job of filtering out all the furry on furry stuff after which you can probably get what you want with an additional tag or two?

Unfortunately furry with humanoid doesn't allow us to filter by the gender of the furry, which is the point of these hypotetical tags. Otherwise interspecies furry would already mostly suffice.

Hm, that's a valid oversight. Even so I definitely don't think it needs to get into the territory of male_furry_on_female_humanoid or such overly precise tags.

nonamethanks said:

male/female furry doesn't solve the issue of finding or filtering out yuri/yaoi though.

If the problem then becomes filtering out yaoi or yuri can't you just -yuri or -yaoi in your search, or blacklist them?
"anthro_on_humanoid male_anthro -yaoi" and you only get anthros on human(ish) females, "anthro_on_humanoid female_anthro -yuri" and you only get female anthros on guys?

Astolfo said:

Hm, that's a valid oversight. Even so I definitely don't think it needs to get into the territory of male_furry_on_female_humanoid or such overly precise tags.

If the problem then becomes filtering out yaoi or yuri can't you just -yuri or -yaoi in your search, or blacklist them?
"anthro_on_humanoid male_anthro -yaoi" and you only get anthros on human(ish) females, "anthro_on_humanoid female_anthro -yuri" and you only get female anthros on guys?

That assumes that these tags are going to always be used, which in reality is not true. We used to have the same issue with dark_skin, when we didn't have dark-skinned female and it was assumed that dark_skin -dark_skinned_male would only find women. This in practice was wrong because people often don't tag male-specific tags in female-focused pictures, especially the explicit ones (1girl -dark-skinned_female -dark-skinned_male dark_skin rating:e nowadays allows us to see how bad it really was).

Let's look at the possible cases:

• furry_on_furry yaoi vs yaoi furry -interspecies, male_furry not needed, already possible to search*
• furry_on_furry yuri vs yuri furry -interspecies, female_furry not needed, already possible to search*
• furry_on_furry hetero vs furry hetero -interspecies, male/female furry not needed, already possible to search*

• male_furry_on_human hetero vs male_furry hetero -female_furry, currently not possible to search
• male_furry_on_human yaoi vs furry yaoi interspecies, male/female furry not needed, already possible to search*

• female_furry_on_human hetero vs female_furry hetero -male_furry, currently not possible to search
• female_furry_on_human yuri vs furry yuri interspecies, male/female furry not needed, already possible to search*

[*] interspecies is a bad filter because it's often missed, so it becomes a game of cat and mouse to fix mistags while you're browsing for content, which is not very fun if you're looking at porn tags. "Fix the mistags when you see them" is not a very good argument when talking about fetishes, especially ones as strong as furry. Remember, furry -rating:s is one of the default entries in the blacklist.

Of the 7 possible combinations, 5 are already technically searchable, albeit with mistags because you have to rely on a three-tag search to make it work. In these, adding male/female furry would be padding.
The two combinations that are impossible to search for right now are male furries on female non-furries and female furries on male non-furries. Basically hetero interspecies. Obvious hetero interspecies is not a substitute due to the amount of things that technically fall under interspecies.
In fact, interspecies causes issues for the other 5 combinations as well because things like pokemon (creature) on pokemon are also interspecies while also being furry on furry (think lucario on gardevoir). The wiki says "Sex between a human and a non-human, but humanoid, species" but good luck enforcing that when people routinely mistag even bestiality with interspecies and viceversa. I don't think interspecies in general is a great idea of a tag because of how generic and prone to mistakes it is.
So, it might make sense to use male_furry/female_furry, but then you end up with, for example, male_furry yaoi, which is same amount of tags as furry_on_furry yaoi.

Of the two currently impossible combinations, the only one that I can see working is male_furry hetero -female_furry, and with a big question mark, while I can't see female_furry hetero -male_furry ever working given what we've seen in the past. As mentioned before, and in the dark_skin example, people frequently miss male tags. You only have to look at 1girl sex -1boy -multiple_boys to see how often people forget to tag male features. I'm not very enthusiastic about having to spend hours looking at content I don't like to fix mistags just to find what I want, and I spend way too much time on danbooru already. I can't imagine the average lurker would ever want to do that.

The only positive side I can see for male_furry/female_furry is as a replacement for 1boy solo furry and 1girl solo furry. For the purpose of this thread they wouldn't help at all, imo.