Changing color gloves to color handwear

BUR #5014 has been rejected.

Changing the glove specific color/pattern tags to being handwear neutral color/pattern tags.

If the above gets approved, then other colored handwear, like mittens, should also be aliased as well.

Eh, not a fan of turning a 1-tag search into a 2-tag one, but whatever. It would also help with the mess that is gloves vs mittens vs whatever.

There are pros and cons to making everything generic (e.g. implications no longer work), but it's in line with the legwear and neckwear tags, so it makes sense.

Speaking of implications, you should probably include their removal as part of this BUR.

BUR updated with removing glove implications and including mitten aliases.

Edit: Included color bridal_gauntlets tags.

There's also the various gauntlets tags.

I'm very meh on this, mostly because I don't like the word 'handwear'.
Petty, I know.

NWF_Renim said:

BUR updated with removing glove implications and including mitten aliases.

Edit: Included color bridal_gauntlets tags.

I'm not sure about including bridal_gauntlets in "handwear". Aren't they detached_sleeves or arm_warmers most of the time ?
What should be included in "handwear" anyway ? gloves, mittens & gauntlets ? Is there anything else ?

Rignak said:

I'm not sure about including bridal_gauntlets in "handwear". Aren't they detached_sleeves or arm_warmers most of the time ?
What should be included in "handwear" anyway ? gloves, mittens & gauntlets ? Is there anything else ?

Bridal gauntlets cover the hands as well and there is a vast overlap between these and elbow gloves. They're visually identical or very similar in most cases, except for the hand part.

Rignak said:

I'm not sure about including bridal_gauntlets in "handwear". Aren't they detached_sleeves or arm_warmers most of the time ?

In general usage bridal gauntlets fill the same slot or niche as gloves do, while detached sleeves or arm warmers don't. This is why gloves can readily be worn with detached sleeves (post #post #846360) and arm warmers (post #4259422). Bridal gauntlets likewise can be worn together with detached sleeves (post #181447, post #601882) or arm warmers.

Though there are some that cross the line from being a glove (especially elbow glove) replacement and are also detached sleeves, example post #4057130.

Rignak said:

What should be included in "handwear" anyway ? gloves, mittens & gauntlets ? Is there anything else ?

I think the following should also be included in handwear.

• hand wraps, fabric strips worn around the hand and wrist to protect it. Example: post #3921120, post #3931893
• finger cots, currently a few posts under the tag finger gloves. They're a covering to protect the fingers. Example: post #3623973, post #3957027
• finger sleeves, but currently don't see any purpose made examples on danbooru. They're similar to finger cots, but they do not cover the finger tips. They're used by basketball players to protect the fingers and improve grip of the ball. They cover the fingers like in post #2885613. Here is an external link for an example: link.

Ugh. I've really grown to dislike this move to change everything to handwear, footwear, headwear, neckwear, eyewear, etc. We've gone from simple words like gloves or shoes that are easy to understand, if imperfect, to all these obtuse terms that no one would naturally search for or say in real life.

What has happened is that taggers have gone completely overboard with color tagging over the past few years, and instead of having the balls to nuke these tags outright, we bend over backwards and overhaul everything else to accommodate these new tags. Because god forbid we just nuke a color tag for being worthless.

The reality is that the only color tags that get any serious search traffic are tags for fetish clothing items. Things like legwear, panties, bras, bikinis, dresses, skirts, etc. Everything else, nobody really cares about.

Mitten colors get maybe one unique search per day. White mittens got 9 searches in the last week, and only 2 posts were actually viewed from those searches. Mittens in general had only 100 unique searches and 34 posts viewed. Black legwear, in contrast, had 2,000 searches and 6,500 posts viewed.

Here are the top 50 most searched color tags over the last week:

• https://insights-embed.newrelic.com/embedded_widget/Nv6s82RRNcu0n0TM-A3mtU3srxHLRhqw
• https://insights-embed.newrelic.com/embedded_widget/zyAjS7ThQoQhOPbRIMgt__MoMXF6qTgz
• https://insights-embed.newrelic.com/embedded_widget/v0hkYhFSVGFI8EioOBIWcZ0Yaq2obmlM
• https://insights-embed.newrelic.com/embedded_widget/lQuARe-bMiIlCP7uv4O0n6BSeGCQEYPO
• https://insights-embed.newrelic.com/embedded_widget/4gRo1H6AqOzTEAV2WFX7ZQIgkHNhh4-y
• https://insights-embed.newrelic.com/embedded_widget/r1SoYHp3cHuvTqxRsu5QRELJtuJVw5u-
• https://insights-embed.newrelic.com/embedded_widget/NOcCBEUM2ITotj2uChIUSgWh8yuOK0FU
• https://insights-embed.newrelic.com/embedded_widget/OjD5YYNePymFGy58tR4kDJASML3elYEn
• https://insights-embed.newrelic.com/embedded_widget/Wp1jgjLppJOzClOyvOxtiWXeJkZbDv_K
• https://insights-embed.newrelic.com/embedded_widget/JO54WpC48kLCeJsbk6K_y0zarXIzTNwK
• https://insights-embed.newrelic.com/embedded_widget/CIN9xCDop6Cg7fqEckkTsxEbmbflDn2r

You'll notice these contain a lot of false positives from characters or copyrights that happen to have colors in their name, like Black Clover or White Blood Cell (Hataraku Saibou). That's telling in itself. It shows how little used these tags are when they're less searched than random obscure character or copyright tags.

Going back to the original question, the question was, what are gloves? Do mittens count as gloves? Calling it handwear doesn't answer that question, it just poses a different question. Now you have to know what handwear is. Which is worse because I more or less know what gloves are without being told, but I don't know what Danbooru's definition of handwear is without being told. It's yet another thing you have to memorize to use the site, on top of the million other tags you have to memorize.

We still don't even have a solid definition for some of these older tags, like neckwear or headwear. I certainly couldn't tell you what counts as neckwear without looking it up. Actually, there's nothing you can look up, because none of these -wear tags have wikis, because they're not real tags by themselves. Which makes it even worse, we have these concepts that exist and you're expected to know, but that aren't defined anywhere.

(The only thing that's worse is when these tags somehow do become standalone tags, like neckwear has somehow become a standalone tag now.)

The irony is that merging color tags doesn't really reduce tag bloat. Calling it black handwear instead of black gloves doesn't reduce the number of tags on a post. It reduces the number of color tags globally, but who cares about that? If I'm looking at a post tagged black gloves, then I don't care that black mittens exists somewhere out there too. Just like I don't care about the dozens of other black clothing tags that also exist. The real problem is when tag lists become unreadable because every post has a million tags, and half of them are for useless things like mitten color that nobody actually searches for.

I absolutely agree that colour tagging has gotten way out of hand and a lot of them is just padding and could be nuked without any real loss except for a few users.

I've used COLOR tags to successfully locate characters that I didn't know. That's only one use case, although I can imagine there being many more, even those that I can't think of myself. That alone gives them tremendous value to me, even though they may be used only once in a while. To just declare something as unworthy just because one doesn't find it useful themselves is quite frankly short-sighted.

If the sight of so many COLOR tags is offensive to some people, then perhaps they should be stuffed in a new tag category color or whatever; then those users could just hide them with CSS. Either that or just press on the with current status quo. Either would be fine by me. I'd be 100% dead set against any kind of wide-scale nuking of COLOR tags whatsoever though.

I also tend to err on the side of more tags rather than fewer and agree with BrokenEagle98. Do people really read the taglist directly so much as they use it in order to find or aggregate things via search? I can agree that we should be at least a bit careful in creating new color tags, but I don't think nuking them would be advantageous even if individually they see fairly sparse use. Part of what makes Danbooru so much better than other many image sites (including Pixiv) as far as search goes is the richness of the tagging here. I also agree with Evazion though in that the trend towards more abstract and clunky ___wear tags is a bit unfortunate, even if I understand why they are being suggested.

This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

As evazion said, "red handwear" isn't very natural. I don't mind the change, but instead of "<color>_handwear", everything should be "<color> gloves". Gauntlets and mittens are gloves. If I want to find a character with white handwear, my intuition would be to search for white gloves, then add that second tag if I want to specify the type of gloves (including just "gloves").

BUR #5455 has been rejected.

Removed all <color>_gloves -> <color>_handwear aliases and replaced <color>_mittens and <color>_bridal_ganutlets aliases with <color>_gloves implications.
"Gloves" is a much better generic term for handwear, applicable to literally all kinds of clothing for the hand.

If all handwear is gloves why would the implication to gloves would be removed? That's kinda self-defeating and it's opposed to how every other color_thing tag works.

I disagree with the way some other color_things work. Gloves on its own would be a catch-all for non-special gloves, but color_gloves would still be used in combination with special gloves.

E.g. iPhone is not be used at the same time as iPhone 11 Pro if only one is present.

Gloves would be used where the type of gloves is not known. Bridal gauntlets and mittens would continue to not imply gloves, but color_gloves could still be used to search for colours of any gloves—mittens, bridal gauntlets, and gloves that don't have a subclass.