[discussion] nuking remodel_(kantai_collection) into separate character tags

This is something that I've thought for a long time but could never really put into words until evazion mentioned it in forum #172656

tl;dr: remodel (kantai collection) is a bad tag.
It makes no sense that someone can't just search for shigure kai ni (kantai collection) or yuudachi kai ni (kantai collection). Why would someone have to go and research a character's alternate models outside of the site when they want to search for a specific design?
It's also diametrically opposed to how we handle almost all of the other alternate forms across gacha and various other franchises. It's ultimately a tag that is user unfriendly and only helpful to those who already know it all about Kantai Collection.

I realize kantai collection is kind of waning in popularity at this point, due to F/GO and other boat games taking the spotlight. However about half of the remodel (kantai collection) posts are combined with the solo tag, and there's no time like now, so with some BURs it could be possible to do a big part of the work automatically and sort out the rest of the tag manually slowly, piece by piece until it's eventually gone and sorted out properly (like we've been doing with bunny girl).

I want to hear the community's opinion first before submitting a BUR, because there'd be no point in making such an effort if half the people are against it. What do you guys think?

I agree and it also expands to other copyrights, like elite_ii_(arknights) is the same thing, for reference.

It would make it more clear what's remodel and what isn't (better to search as the tag isn't drowning in a sea of other blue gentags).

So, +1 from me.

I still generally dislike the idea, but as there doesn't really seem to be a better alternative than this approach I can't really say anything opposed to it.

I would like to propose with this though that we change the qualifier for the series to KanColle to at least help offset these longer tags that will be created.

From the point of view of the user searching, this totally makes sense. Just like Azur lane characters get separate character tags for their respective skins. Most (if not all) remodels look different than their standard look.

Doing this would make it so standard users specially can easily get to what they are looking for. +1

NWF_Renim said:

I still generally dislike the idea, but as there doesn't really seem to be a better alternative than this approach I can't really say anything opposed to it.

I would like to propose with this though that we change the qualifier for the series to KanColle to at least help offset these longer tags that will be created.

I have no issue with this, however if we do this we'll have to change it for them all, since that seems to be the route evazion wants. There's 352 character tags ending with _(kantai_collection), so I think it would have to be a separate request after all of this is done, otherwise it'll be another blocking point that could kill the whole thing.

Been wondering about this ever since evazion brought it up, but wasn't sure how to broach it.

+1

Yeah it definitely makes sense to make them character tags so that they're more noticeable for anyone that wants to look for the other designs. +1

nonamethanks said:

I have no issue with this, however if we do this we'll have to change it for them all, since that seems to be the route evazion wants. There's 352 character tags ending with _(kantai_collection), so I think it would have to be a separate request after all of this is done, otherwise it'll be another blocking point that could kill the whole thing.

That's fine, though should see if there is agreement on this change here so that the proposed BUR can use the (kancolle) qualifier and ideally reduce what will need to be done on the second BUR to update the existing tags.

I'm neutral on this. I'll just follow along with whatever the end results would be.

VR-Man said:

I'm neutral on this. I'll just follow along with whatever the end results would be.

+1

I approve, and would like to re-propose a tag category for alternative outfits, so that chartag:* searches aren't affected by alternate outfits.

NWF_Renim said:

That's fine, though should see if there is agreement on this change here so that the proposed BUR can use the (kancolle) qualifier and ideally reduce what will need to be done on the second BUR to update the existing tags.

I'm reticent to do that in this first potential BUR for the reasons listed by evazion in the thread I linked in the op: trying to do two things at once will be blocked the moment someone disagrees with one or the other. I would prefer to open a different thread for the kantai collection -> kancolle renaming when this is resolved, because users might care about one but not the other, and to give it more visibility, since it's a significant change, and also because from our point of view it's just a matter of search and replace (and the bur will already have to be split in multiple parts due to the amount of tags, so 350 or 500 tags is not that much of a change).

Username_Hidden said:

I approve, and would like to re-propose a tag category for alternative outfits, so that chartag:* searches aren't affected by alternate outfits.

I'll be frank, the chance is 99% that we will not be getting new tag categories any time soon. evazion has stated many times that he doesn't want to turn the taglist into a rainbow, so I wouldn't get my hopes up.

nonamethanks said:

I'll be frank, the chance is 99% that we will not be getting new tag categories any time soon. evazion has stated many times that he doesn't want to turn the taglist into a rainbow, so I wouldn't get my hopes up.

I think this one is pretty justified, since it actively hampers a site-wide tag search. But i can understand why he would rather not do that.

-1

I don't see any major issues with the current system, it has a single tag to keep track of which is much easier than the alternative.

@Damian0358 also mentioned the posts under original_remodel_(kantai collection) in the Discord. There's also some under original remodel_(kantai_collection) I think (note: two tag search) - hard to tell for me since I don't consume much KC. Not much we can do about these two things other than keeping the gentag.

How would one even do a BUR for this? You'd need to manually retag every image as the site is flooded with all sorts of combinations of x character with remodel and y character without.

With Kancolle the problem isn't as much the remodels as it's the untagged seasonal/alternate costumes

+1 for this for all of the reasons brought up previously.

Additionally, it's a necessity for images with multiple characters. Looking for images of Character A's remodel by searching ["Character A" + "remodel (kantai collection)"] is a complete crapshoot if it's not a solo piece.

Question, if you had say shipgirlname_kai_ni would it also autotag them as shipgirlname or would it be the exclusive shipgirlname_kai_ni tag?

Mexiguy said:

With Kancolle the problem isn't as much the remodels as it's the untagged seasonal/alternate costumes

if there was a vote on this, I'd suggest we also have tags for them