Open letter to the site regarding the mod queue

This is Arcie Albano raising an issue regarding the preference of those tasked to sift through posts for quality check to prioritize artists with better rep and standing over lesser-known yet capable artists.

I feel that this has to be raised since two of my works that were uploaded by non-unrestricted users (post #4297382 and its child post #4297383) may have gotten overlooked past the three-day window.
This isn't the first time I had to resort to raising my say on a thread since it's the same issue I had with post #4123519 four months ago.

I want to raise concerns that lesser-known artists like myself suffer from this while posts from other well-known artists (like post #4302677) were also put up by non-unrestricted users and still have them approved after an hour or less. The quality on the works I made and are promptly linked here are of the same quality as the ones that are put up by the unrestricteds (like post #4287428) and the post linked for comparison. So is it some issue of "we can't sift through all of them at once" or "oops we just overlooked it, our bad" that needs rectifying? Or are there clear issues with the quality of my works?

As a note, I already sent an appeal for the two works I linked on quality grounds and hope this can be resolved soon. Nevertheless, I still want an answer for this issue.

Thank you and good day.

It has been reviewed by 8 approvers. 8 did not like the post enough to approve it.

Doesn't look to me like they got overlooked. 8 people looked at them, and all decided they didn't want to approve it. That's their right as approvers, they're certainly not obligated to approve anything, no matter who or what the artist, uploader, or subject matter is. Artists don't get any say (beyond appeals) in what does or does not get approved (and this is exactly why self uploads are discouraged).

I'm not going to get into a debate on quality, but there's about 40+ users with approval privileges. Maybe some of them have preferences for certain artists, but I sincerely doubt there's some kind of site-wide conspiracy against approving art from unknown and lesser known artists. I see stuff from artists I've never heard of uploaded, and subsequently approved, every day.

But really, why make all this fuss over 2/250+ posts? I'm going to be perfectly honest, as the artist saying stuff like, "unapproved despite the quality" isn't very inspiring. Jumping to the assumption that it's an issue of bad faith, acting like your art must be featured on a site that wasn't made for artists to begin with isn't great either.

I'm sorry, but I clearly don't see how they could not come to accept a work (and the version with background) that has no anatomy issues and only some composition problems that I had rectified in a single-page revision on pixiv.

If the topic was any reason why, then post #4287428 could never have gotten through because it contained an original character that only me and a select dozen of my colleagues could remember. In fact, iirc derivatives of existing copyrights have a better chance of making it through than originals.
If anatomy, coloring, and/or lighting were the reason then post #4123519 would never have been given a second chance.

I always make sure my own creations are more than good enough to pass and this gaffe does not reflect well in the site's ability to pass judgement.

I already experienced this issue before and any further occurrences erode my confidence in this site's ability to give due exposure to artists. Also, the correct number of works listed under my name on the site is 215.

Not sure why the children got left out. Since the only thing different was the background it seems the foremost piece of the set was enough. That's just my guess though.

I don't have an answer to explain how this happens. It occurs occasionally, where the right eyes just aren't on at the right time.

Sometimes I see deleted posts from months ago get approved without any prompt, seemingly because an approver stumbled upon them. When I do it, the thought 'how did I miss this?' crosses my mind.

If you see any images that need another run in the queue, please go ahead and use the appeal function.

Well, such threads really shouldn't occur because we've created official functionality for appeals in an attempt to keep the drama from the forum. For that matter, complaining/criticizing usually doesn't buy one much if any sympathy. In fact, the opposite effect is usually achieved. "You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"

ArcieA said:

I always make sure my own creations are more than good enough to pass and this gaffe does not reflect well in the site's ability to pass judgement.

I already experienced this issue before and any further occurrences erode my confidence in this site's ability to give due exposure to artists. Also, the correct number of works listed under my name on the site is 215.

Approvers deciding your work isn't good enough to be "active" on the site, which for the record does not make users of any level unable to find and view them, if less likely to do so, is not an "issue". That's how the site works, you disagreeing with someone else's judgement does not mean there's a problem. Certainly not an indication of a site-wide hostility against less known artists.

Saying your work is definitely good enough and that the site's judgement is flawed for disagreeing is exactly why we discourage artists from uploading their art directly. You may be skipping the self upload step, but your behavior is exactly what self uploading artists always do when their art doesn't get approved. Except you're using the forums for it instead of the comments.

Finally, frankly, artist exposure is not Danbooru's purpose. That is a byproduct. Danbooru is an archival site first and foremost. If we were dedicated to exposure we wouldn't even have a mod queue and dedicated approval process to filter out low quality art. Danbooru is not a site for artists. Most artists hate us.

there's about 40+ users with approval privileges

And the problem at hand has been identified...

VSD02C said:

And the problem at hand has been identified...

What problem might you be referring to?

If you mean to suggest that posts are being overlooked because there aren't enough Approvers, let's check some numbers.

If we look at 2021-01-11, four days ago, we can see that 1828 images got uploaded in total that day. That's only about 45 posts per approver to review them all. Of those, 90 were unapproved. That's only about 5%. If we check those deleted posts individually:

It has been reviewed by 10 approvers. 10 did not like the post enough to approve it.
It has been reviewed by 15 approvers. 5 believe it has poor quality. 10 did not like the post enough to approve it.
It has been reviewed by 12 approvers. 1 believe it has poor quality. 11 did not like the post enough to approve it.

I'm not going to check every single one, but I doubt there's a single post that didn't get reviewed, and I would even bet the number of reviewers is never less than 6-8. If 8+ different people agree an image isn't good enough to be approved, I see little room to argue.

So, rather than there being a shortage of approvers or a collective disdain for small artists, it looks more to me like some people are just salty some of their uploads get deleted and want to blame problems that don't exist.

blindVigil said:

What problem might you be referring to?

Not remotely enough approvers. The few there are, only about half actually give a piss to what's in the queue. Look at my uploads as an example: You're gonna start seeing the same three approvers over, and over and over and over again. This place needs to start cleaning house. Look at current approvers' histories. Boot inactive ones and those who overwhelmingly reject damn near everything, then start giving the privilege to users with a history of quality uploads. And on that account, stop being so damn picky. A ratio of 1 to 10,000 is an utterly ridiculous metric for approver status.

VSD02C said:

Boot inactive ones and those who overwhelmingly reject damn near everything, then start giving the privilege to users with a history of quality uploads.

That's already done, though?

VSD02C said:

Not remotely enough approvers. The few there are, only about half actually give a piss to what's in the queue. Look at my uploads as an example: You're gonna start seeing the same three approvers over, and over and over and over again. This place needs to start cleaning house. Look at current approvers' histories. Boot inactive ones and those who overwhelmingly reject damn near everything, then start giving the privilege to users with a history of quality uploads. And on that account, stop being so damn picky. A ratio of 1 to 10,000 is an utterly ridiculous metric for approver status.

House cleaning already exists and is automatic: approvers are automatically demoted if they don't approve at least 30 posts in the last 45 days.
As for the reason there's much fewer approvers than unrestricted uploaders, that's mostly because historically they've been promoted in groups of 3-5 whenever the current ones can't keep up anymore. If you look at the last promoted approvers they had a very good ratio but not as harsh as your numbers.

VSD02C said:

Not remotely enough approvers. The few there are, only about half actually give a piss to what's in the queue. Look at my uploads as an example: You're gonna start seeing the same three approvers over, and over and over and over again. This place needs to start cleaning house. Look at current approvers' histories. Boot inactive ones and those who overwhelmingly reject damn near everything, then start giving the privilege to users with a history of quality uploads. And on that account, stop being so damn picky. A ratio of 1 to 10,000 is an utterly ridiculous metric for approver status.

Looking at your uploads, just on the first page I see at least 8 different approvers. I have no doubt evazion knows what he's doing, if some approvers needed to be replaced he would be doing so. And apparently the site does it automatically, so even better.

VSD02C said:

Look at my uploads as an example: You're gonna start seeing the same three approvers over, and over and over and over again.

That would be a decent sign that the system is working as intended. Approvers approve what they like. When uploaders and approvers have the same taste, the latter tends to approve a lot of the former's uploads.

If you're looking for everything to be approved, use Gelbooru instead.

OOZ662 said:

That would be a decent sign that the system is working as intended. Approvers approve what they like. When uploaders and approvers have the same taste, the latter tends to approve a lot of the former's uploads.

If you're looking for everything to be approved, use Gelbooru instead.

Doesn't Gelbooru automatically upload everything that shows up here?