BUR #4342 has been approved by @NWF_Renim.
create alias reisen -> reisen_(touhou_bougetsushou)
Ambiguous with Reisen Udongein Inaba.
Posted under Tags
BUR #4342 has been approved by @NWF_Renim.
create alias reisen -> reisen_(touhou_bougetsushou)
Ambiguous with Reisen Udongein Inaba.
Oh boy, here we go again.
It's not pretty, but i guess it helps distinguish her chartag from the other Reisen?
NWF_Renim said:
Wouldn't this cause the issue of at a glance making people think she's not a part of the touhou series?
Not really, SSiB is the title of the manga series she appeared in, and if you know her, then you definitely know SSiB. But it could be confusing to people who don't know the character.
Username_Hidden said:
Not really, SSiB is the title of the manga series she appeared in, and if you know her, then you definitely know SSiB. But it could be confusing to people who don't know the character.
That's the issue I mean, only a person already aware that that title is a part of the touhou series would be aware of it. For most other users seeing it, it would give the impression she is from another series altogether.
Would it not be simpler to go with its own wiki and just refer to her as Reisen_II_(touhou)?
NWF_Renim said:
Would it not be simpler to go with its own wiki and just refer to her as Reisen_II_(touhou)?
Although both Reisen II and Rei'Sen are tempting alternatives, they would go against the standard set by myon, since both Reisen II and Rei'Sen are only a byproduct of the english translation.
Clarste (one of, if not the lead translator for the english fandom) said that her name should be written as Raysen. But i feel that would cause more confusion than else.
I think adding a modifier is the least painful way to go.
Another problem with that modifier though is that it also implies she only appears in that one story, while the wiki you linked yourself shows she appears in two other stories.
Any modifier should be for the franchise as a whole, not just one of the stories that she appears in.
Updated
Then the modifier could also be _(bougetsushou).
For context, Bougetsushou is comprised of the aforementioned SSiB, Cage in Lunatic Runagate (a collection of various side-stories which take place during SSiB's events and are connected to them), and Inaba of the Moon and Inaba of the Earth (which is loosely connected to SSiB and CiLR, but it's canonicity is still discussed since ZUN didn't have any say on it's story).
She doesn't appear outside of the Bougetsushou trilogy though, and since her first (and most impactful) appearance is in SSiB, i see no issue in using _(silent_sinner_in_blue) as the modifier, also because it's a more common name in the west than Bougetsushou.
I think "bougetsushou" suffers the same issues as "silent_sinner_in_blue", but because it is shorter we could tack in touhou so it is _(touhou bougetsushou) or something similar. As I said, the franchise should be in the modifier. Although I think it'd be the better option to just go with something like Reisen_(II)_(Touhou) instead.
Having read the "Raysen" discussion, I cannot support that idea at all. Making her name different in English because it's written different in Japanese, but read the exact same way, is just nonsense to me. If the characters that make her name are read "Reisen" then that's what her name is, and her sharing that reading with another character is not a good enough justification to butcher her name.
I don't really like tacking II onto her name, either. I would rather not perpetuate people referring to her as "Reisen II", which is both incorrect and also makes her look like Reisen's daughter or something.
My vote is for Reisen (Touhou Bougetsushou). It seems like the most accurate and neutral choice, and exactly what we do with ambiguous character names in any other situation. I wouldn't have a problem with dropping Touhou from the qualifier, either, both work for me.
blindVigil said:
Having read the "Raysen" discussion, I cannot support that idea at all. Making her name different in English because it's written different in Japanese, but read the exact same way, is just nonsense to me. If the characters that make her name are read "Reisen" then that's what her name is, and her sharing that reading with another character is not a good enough justification to butcher her name.
I don't really like tacking II onto her name, either. I would rather not perpetuate people referring to her as "Reisen II", which is both incorrect and also makes her look like Reisen's daughter or something.
My vote is for Reisen (Touhou Bougetsushou). It seems like the most accurate and neutral choice, and exactly what we do with ambiguous character names in any other situation. I wouldn't have a problem with dropping Touhou from the qualifier, either, both work for me.
+1, "Raysen" is also just an unintuitive spelling for non-native English speakers as it may not be entirely obvious that it's supposed to be pronounced the same as "Reisen". "Reysen" doesn't run into the same problem, but it's equally arbitrary; ultimately there is no real reason to spell it differently imo, because katakana or not, the name is very obviously and blatantly picked as a namesake to Reisen Udongein Inaba. A qualifier is fine.
I'd be against any of the specific qualifiers mentioned above. We literally do that for no other Touhou characters on this site.
Tag search: *_(touhou*
I don't see why we couldn't just use reisen_(touhou). There is very little chance of people confusing a tag with only 600 posts versus the other Reisen tag with 20K+ posts. It would also be in line with what we do for every other ambiguous Touhou tag on this site.
BrokenEagle98 said:
I don't see why we couldn't just use reisen_(touhou). There is very little chance of people confusing a tag with only 600 posts versus the other Reisen tag with 20K+ posts. It would also be in line with what we do for every other ambiguous Touhou tag on this site.
Because Reisen Udongein Inaba is from Touhou too, lol.
The goal isn't to distinguish the tag from other series, it's to distinguish the Reisen tag from Reisen Udongein Inaba more clearly. Adding a _(touhou) modifier wouldn't change anything.
As for my opinion on Reisen_(touhou_bougetsushou): it's ugly, it works, but i feel there are better options.
Alternatively we could just leave it as it is - it's not that great either, but i can't say i've ever seen any mistagging. As BE said, it's hard to confuse the tags when their post count is so vastly different.
Username_Hidden said:
The goal isn't to distinguish the tag from other series, it's to distinguish the Reisen tag from Reisen Udongein Inaba more clearly. Adding a _(touhou) modifier wouldn't change anything.
The other Reisen tag doesn't and won't have a qualifier. I don't see how that doesn't make the difference between them any clearer. In fact, adding any qualifier already changes it enough so that both tags would be drastically different looking from each other. When people type out "reisen", they'll see the top 2 autocomplete entries being the aforementioned tags, and if they can't figure out that reisen_(touhou) doesn't mean reisen_udongein_inaba, then frankly they've got bigger problems that we can't help them out with.
Anyways, I've said my piece and cast my vote. I'll leave it at that.
Adding (touhou) would be too ambiguous. Having just (touhou) would be confusing for most people, and most people don't read wikis. I support Rei'sen the most, since that's the one I see the most and I think it's different enough not to be confused with Udonge. Adding SSIB as a qualifier works too, but I would prefer the shorter tag.
Alternatively we can go the jacket_girl_(dipp) route and give her a _(ssib) modifier. Which is also ambiguous.
Leaving it as it is may really be the best option.
Username_Hidden said:
Alternatively we can go the jacket_girl_(dipp) route and give her a _(ssib) modifier. Which is also ambiguous.
Leaving it as it is may really be the best option.
I don't actually care if we do anything to distinguish the two or not. It wouldn't hurt to be proactive, but if there hasn't actually been a problem to fix, then doing anything at all would be more for consistency than anything.
My stance is simply that if we must do something, I would rather it not be something that arbitrarily changes a character's name or appends misleading qualifiers to it. (Bougetsushou) or (ssib) work fine for me, but I'm not strongly against just doing nothing either.
I also agree that (touhou) makes the least sense as an option. The point is disambiguating two characters with similar names, why would we use the main copyright tag to differentiate them when they're both from that copyright? The other Touhou characters use that qualifier because they're being disambiguated from other copyrights, not because they share a name with a character within the same copyright. Consistency with them isn't an argument, and the fact (touhou) wouldn't hurt anything here is a statement on there not actually being a problem to begin with, not an affirmation that (touhou) is a good idea.
Oryuu said:
BUR #4342 has been approved by @NWF_Renim.
create alias reisen -> reisen_(touhou_bougetsushou)
Ambiguous with Reisen Udongein Inaba.
We could just rename her "Reisen ii" right? Or just we can switch the nam with SSIB next to it, or keep it as it is. I dunno i feel mixed about this, i feel more to calling he with SSIB next to it but i dunno, you guys decide
Just have it as Reisen (Touhou Bougetsushou) as vigil said a month ago, why are you guys over-complicating things so much when it's the only viable answer unless you want to go with non-canon names which everyone already disagreed on.
The bulk update request #4342 (forum #178293) has been approved by @NWF_Renim.
BUR #4550 has been approved by @NWF_Renim.
remove alias reisen -> reisen_(touhou_bougetsushou)
Unaliasing Reisen and leaving it empty.
Changed the original alias to reisen_(touhou_bougetsushou), can always discuss and change the naming again at a later time if there is an alternative that is more supported down the road.