Dickgirls and related tags

IMHO the confirmation that the character has no vagina to be considered newhalf causes inconsistency the most. While I understand that futanari is the most popular therm, tagging futanari only if you can visually confirm the presence of female genitals and newhalf if you can't would work better with the TWYS rule then prioritizing the futanari tag (sometimes tagging what you don't see..).
It's a big change, however, and hence the worse solution for gardening.

Anyway, I think right now it's more relevant to remove the futanari / male_futanari implication.

I think there are like three issues here.

1. Should the alias be removed? Yes, because it's not technically a 1:1 mapping. There are non-zero cases of girls with dicks that have a more specific tag than futanari (right now).

2. Is this the correct way to view this set of anatomical changes? The issues around newhalf seem to stem from the idea that indications of transition are required (either in-canon or TWYS rules). In a way, having a dickgirl tag as the "noun" and modifiers around surgery? hormone treatments? in-canon transition? could support that.

There is merit to being specific, because it helps people find the images they want. If the classification system is too obscure, then there's little merit because it's not going to be used and become a gardening problem. I haven't seen a quantitative way of determining whether or not specificity for a given tag outweighs the gardening overhead, but it would be damn useful.

3. TWYS strictness? I don't think it's worth being overly strict. It's good advice, but once a character "obviously" falls into a bucket that's not seen, it'll be all fuzzy again. TWYS should be strict when the tags are purely about visual things. But if we're going to have tags that are more philosophical then it shouldn't be a rule to live/die by. We have a lot of very specific cum location tags, so we could be more specific if necessary for newhalf.

This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.

I'll reiterate that regardless of what else we choose to do - nuking, renaming, aliasing, redefining - we should have dickgirl as a TWYS for any feminine character with a penis.

I have done some rework on the wikis of both futanari and newhalf some time ago, because the wikis were contradicting themselves and each other, and they weren't very clear on some certain points.
1st: futanari wiki was treating newhalf as a subset of futanari, and at the same time it was saying that futanari don't have nothing to do with transexuals.
2nd: newhalf wiki wasn't clear about its actual meaning, and that is a slang japanese therm for shemales, male-to-female transexual women, and at the same time it was being treated as a subset of futanari.
These factors were some of the cause of all this confusion.
Futanari and Newhalf are only visually similar, but completely different in concept and meaning. To differentiate better the two:

• Futanari: a fantastical concept, girls that magically grew a dick and that's it. They have at least penis and pussy, but sometimes also testicles (full-package futanari).
• Newhalf: based on real life Male-to-Female Transexual women, also known as shemale/ladyboy, etc. Don't have female genitals because they are born males.

Futanari are girls with dicks while Newhalf are more like boys with boobs.

• Futanari should follow strict "Tag What You See" criteria for tagging: posts featuring Girl with dick and pussy or that you can't determine if the character lacks female genitals.
• Newhalf on the other hand should follow a mix of TWYS + context by the artist: posts where it explicit shows the character lacks a pussy; posts in which there are indicators confirming the character is a newhalf (such as tags used by the artist); and characters that are 100% confirmed to be newhalfs. This tagging criteria is essentially the same used for Otoko no ko: there are arts that you can't tell if the character is a girl or a boy by the art alone and some context is needed, and also the fact that both Otoko no ko and Newhalf exist in real life. The difference between Newhalf and Futanari in tagging is essentially the same as tagging girls and otoko no ko art.

Based on all of this, I think Futanari and Newhalf shouldn't be tagged together because they aren't the same thing (currently there is a good number of posts with both tags). I'm also not against the idea of having dickgirl as a catchall tag for both Futanari and Newhalf. It makes sense to see them as distinct subcategories of dickgirls, imo.

I agree on what's being said for dickgirl as a catchall tag, it's also how exhentai deals with it, and it works for them.

If we had a catchall tag we could also use it for all those cases where it's not clear whether a character is futa or a newhalf, avoiding having to resort to canon.

Bump for the last time.

I reflected better and an agree with noname, it seems Dickgirl as catchall tag is a good solution to the futanari x newhalf mess. People will keep putting futanari and newhalf together because they want to see all "dickgirls" together in some way, and it also maintain the important distinction of the these two tags.

This bulk update request has been rejected because it was not approved within 60 days.

The bulk update request #3469 (forum #172910) has been rejected by @DanbooruBot.

So what's it gonna be? dickgirl as an umbrella tag comprising both futanari and newhalf?

The votes were pretty evenly split on this. My stance is that newhalf should just imply futanari. This is the easiest thing to do and I imagine it's what most normal users expect the futanari tag to be.

Frankly I still don't understand why newhalf is supposed to be this completely separate thing from futanari. The claim is that it's for transgender characters. Fine. But that's not how it's used. If you tried to tag a canonically transgender character as newhalf, for example Hoshikawa Lily or some of Pas's original characters, then you would get shot down immediately. Conversely, if you look at newhalf -original, you can see most of the characters there are canonically not trans, they're known female characters being drawn with dicks. This tells me it's not really for transgender characters, it's a fetish tag for a certain type of futa that has a dick and balls and no pussy. Most characters tagged newhalf are portrayed the same way as futas, as some hentai fantasy fetish, not as real-world transgender characters.

TWYS exists for good reason. One reason is that artists are full of shit sometimes. Take post #4156694 for example. The character on the right is a boy according to the artist. Not female, not futanari, not newhalf, 100% male. You would never guess this by yourself. Another reason is that you should be able to tag posts correctly just by looking at them. For a lot of newhalf posts I have no idea why they're tagged that way, or why some are tagged newhalf but others are tagged futa, even when they look identical.

Here are my problems with making dickgirl the umbrella tag:

• OP's original complaint was that these tags are too confusing. If the difference between futanari vs newhalf is confusing (and it is), then adding another tag just makes it worse. Now you have three tags to learn, which is annoying if you're normal person and don't give a shit about all these distinctions that futa fetishists are trying to make.
• Futanari is one of the most blacklisted tags on the site. People blacklist futa expecting it to blacklist all dickgirls. People shouldn't have to change their blacklists just because there's this weird newhalf tag they've never heard of, that's somehow separate from futanari, so now they have to blacklist this new dickgirl tag instead.
• The dickgirl tag would be 95% futanari anyway. Any time two tags are nearly the same, I see it as a bad sign. It means one of the tags is redundant. It tells me the bigger tag should just include the smaller tag, not that we should invent an extra umbrella tag to cover both tags.

evazion said:
Frankly I still don't understand why newhalf is supposed to be this completely separate thing from futanari. The claim is that it's for transgender characters. Fine. But that's not how it's used. If you tried to tag a canonically transgender character as newhalf, for example Hoshikawa Lily or some of Pas's original characters, then you would get shot down immediately. Conversely, if you look at newhalf -original, you can see most of the characters there are canonically not trans, they're known female characters being drawn with dicks. This tells me it's not really for transgender characters, it's a fetish tag for a certain type of futa that has a dick and balls and no pussy. Most characters tagged newhalf are portrayed the same way as futas, as some hentai fantasy fetish, not as real-world transgender characters.

To be 100% honest, I agree with everyting here, but I was kinda afraid to say it because it seemed to me like the site was already set on futanari and newhalf being completely separate. I remember some threads from not too long ago that demanded for a clean-up to make futanari and newhalf as distinct as possible. Since they seem to have so much support, I realised it was a lost cause arguing otherwise.
The distinction between futanari and newhalf is in fact pretty arbitrary most of the time, for reasons that have been already explained at length in this thread. If an artist takes an existing character and slaps some dick and balls on her, I highly doubt the artist is saying this is some AU where the character was born male and had top surgery. They just wanted to draw her as a futa with balls and no pussy.
I'd be okay with newhalf implying futanari. It makes searching/blacklisting simpler, and all of the "true" newhalfs seemed to have already been tagged as transgender.

If we want to have futanari be the catchall tag I don't mind that either tbh. Keeping them separate is kinda silly.

nonamethanks said:

If we want to have futanari be the catchall tag I don't mind that either tbh. Keeping them separate is kinda silly.

+1

BUR #3925 has been approved by @evazion.

create implication newhalf -> futanari

As above.

Bump for visibility.

Guaro1238 said:

+1

I think it makes sense to tag all dickgirls as futanari and to also tag them as newhalf if they don't have a pussy.

I think it's important to maintain the futanari tag for the sake of people's blacklists.

Within the futanari tag, I like categorizing based on the anatomy in the picture. Perhaps:

• newhalf: No pussy + balls or no balls
• full-package_futanari: Pussy + balls
• neither newhalf nor full-package: Pussy + no balls

After reflecting better, I think it will be efficient if we treat Newhalf as a subset of Futanari (having in mind how they are visually similar), therefore, making Newhalf implicate Futanari, it's seems like a useful approach for imageboards like Danbooru.