Donmai

Examining the banned content system and how it exploits creators and users on danbooru

Posted under General

This topic has been locked.

I really wish I didn't have to resort to this, but given how poorly some users have responded to topic #17033 and continue to support the "status quo" over how we handle controversially uploaded paywall content, I feel as if I'm obligated to clue everyone in on what we're actually doing.

Who knows if this little experiment will do anything; but at the very least I know for sure that every single time a problem this big goes unsolved there's a giant shitstorm that has to come. Because preventative measures are stupid or something.

So, here we go. Whether you're a danbooru contributor, creator, or user of the site, or even if you don't really care about this site, this is something important that you should know about.

What's this for?

Per the topic headline, we're briefly examining the banned content system and how it exploits creators and users on this site. Every time this topic is brought up, absolutely nothing is done for it because many users and contributors on this site feel it's currently a tenable situation that we have going on; That the true nature of how the banned content system works is somehow obscure enough or barely examined that enough of us are fine getting away with it.

This is to inform the people who likely don't use danbooru or are less informed about this than the contributors or users that are aware of these operations.

The banning system

What it is and how it works

The banning system that currently exists serves as a measure to the discourage and curtail the uploading of content from artists that have informally requested that their content be removed from the site. As it is currently implemented, it is sort of a halfway measure between outright permanently deleting posts and ignoring any requests to delete them.

For content that is banned, only Gold+ membership users are able to see these posts. Understandably, this benefit isn't really mentioned anywhere on the upgrade benefits page, so it's moreso a hidden perk than anything.

Many artists request that their content be either selectively banned or entirely banned when they see their paid rewards on the site, or they disagree with the lack of control they have from users reposting their work elsewhere. But for most intents and purposes of this post we're only looking at the first case.

What usually happens under the current system

1. The artist's content exists on danbooru. Some artists have very few problems with this as long as artworks are sourced correctly back to them.

2. Someone starts uploading their paid rewards (paywall content) from their Patreon/Fanbox/Fantia/Enty/etc. The artist finds out their content is being uploaded out in the open for free, and then reaches out to the webmaster or a member of staff to demand the offending content be removed or that their content be removed altogether. This is usually sans the language that makes it such that they specifically request their work be permanently deleted.

3. The staff member "complies". They "ban" their work, which as stated before, only prevents free or anonymous members from looking at their work. At this point, Gold+ users can still see their work; everyone else is shown a notice to the effect of "<Number> post(s) were removed from this page at the artist's request (learn more)", with a link to banned_artist.

4. Still, nothing stops their paid rewards from continuing to be uploaded against their wishes by prolific and non-prolific uploaders alike. In fact, it is a continued regular occurrence for popular artists like belko, ikomochi, and n.g..

5. Users who know or have read about this perk buy a Gold+ membership, allowing them to view these works freely.

For reference, this is what it looks like to a free or anonymous danbooru member and this is what it looks like to a Gold+ danbooru member

Both are captured from my account reference. The album is here

Why this is bad

In short:

We are charging a minimum $20 one-time membership pass to view paywalled content against the artist's wishes. Not only that, but we're literally deceiving the artists and users alike.

A lot of uploaders don't even own or pay for the exclusive content they upload here; it's usually mirrored off of sites like yande.re, e-hentai.org, or certain sites named after therianthropy and a social activity.

Keep in mind it isn't just paid rewards either. It could just as much be the uploading of digital scans of their doujinshi or content from a private collection on Discord or something to the effect. It doesn't really matter what exactly the content is, just the fact that we're gating this content.

What we're doing is morally reprehensible and sets bad precedence that this is okay; It's in bad faith to just deceive the artist, and then make money off of **their** work with these $20 USD Gold memberships. We can talk bad as much as we want about yande.re and E-H not making content as searchable to the extent that danbooru and its' contributors do with tagging and what not, but at the end of the day even they aren't taking paid memberships to see exclusive content.

I'm going to remark that this isn't phenomena exclusive to danbooru, but it is a shame that it has to happen to arguably one of the biggest sites for content and the progenitor of many other booru derivatives.

Possible solution(s)?

And this is where the slippery slope is. A lot of frequent contributors and users of the site seemingly argue in favor of the status quo because they have some sort of deep obligation to their Gold+ users to not delete grandfathered content that they "arguably" paid for, at least going by topic #17033.

I stand on the idea that the banned content system should just be abolished altogether. If you aren't going to respect an artist's requests to the full tee then just admit it. Sure, it's a dick move, but it's an infinitely better option than the baggage that comes with lying and deceiving them, and earning money from their content.

I get the concern that if we just permanently delete their posts, this is antithetical to the spirit of danbooru as an "archival site" and a anime art imageboard. But this is really the dichotomy of the situation: Either all of this content is okay, or none of it is. Half-assing the measures is just wrong, and will continue to lead to problems in the future if not already right now.

Final remarks

If you're reading this, you likely came from a link that was shared with free paywall content included or some other way. I'm very thankful you've read this post, and I hope that this situation is brought to better light because I truly do believe this problem is a disgusting scourge on what would otherwise be a fairly decent site if it weren't for these controversial measures.

If you know a creator or artist who is concerned about their work being reuploaded without their permission on this site, especially when they've explicitly stated to remove all their present and future artwork, then I think it's worth it you share this to them. Otherwise, nothing changes, and we're that much worse than the rest of the imageboards out there.

Lastly, I understand that I'm potentially jeopardizing my standing as a "good" danbooru contributor because I'm basically tearing the bandaid off on this problem. If I get banned or censored for this, then so be it.

Thanks for reading. Stay safe, watch your hands, be chill.

(This forum post is mirrored on pastebin in case it's deleted here)

Updated by evazion

.grey said:

If you're reading this, you likely came from a link that was shared with free paywall content included or some other way. I'm very thankful you've read this post, and I hope that this situation is brought to better light because I truly do believe this problem is a disgusting scourge on what would otherwise be a fairly decent site if it weren't for these controversial measures.

Yeah I'm gonna have to call you out here. Just earlier today you were boasting on discord about how you gave your patreon key to yiff.party, and there's also user:.grey paid_reward. The "concerned citizen" act is pure cringe.

Might as well ask beforehand every single artist that you upload art of on Danbooru if they consent to it, otherwise all you're doing is stealing their content.

I really should ban you for this. Instead, I'm going to leave this up so everyone can see what a drama queen you're being.

The paid reward situation is already being discussed in topic #17033. The way the ban systems works and why it works that way has been addressed in forum #168719. It has already been acknowledged that the rules are going to change and that uploading paid rewards won't be allowed in the future.

You've openly bragged on Discord about uploading paid rewards to other sites (E-Hentai, https://yiff.party, and https://kemono.party). You've openly admitted to having gigabytes of paid rewards that you're fully ready to share. You've uploaded numerous banned artists yourself, even after they were banned (user:.grey banned_artist). You have no problem with scanlating doujins or with using sites like Mangadex. So I don't want to hear any grandstanding about paid rewards from a person who is fully engaged in uploading paid rewards to other sites.

Do me a favor, go to the E-Hentai forums and tell them how it's morally wrong for them to allow paid rewards on their site. Tell them about how it's morally wrong for them to make ad money off of paid rewards. See how far that gets you.

https://imgur.com/a/KlBQPnk
https://exhentai.org/uploader/ricetaffy

Updated

.grey said:

We are charging a minimum $20 one-time membership pass to view paywalled content

Yeah, this is just patently false. The point of the one-time fee is to support Danbooru as a site, and to gain additional functionality in terms of searching etc. It predates the ban system as a whole, so it can't be predicated on what is essentially a side-effect of that system (keeping some record of what's banned is required in order to ban it). Nowhere on the "Upgrade Account" page does it mention anything with respect to the ban system. The "See Hidden Tags" feature was there to allow Danbooru to serve advertising banners alongside tags and content advertisers specified they didn't want their banners shown alongside. It was a means of allowing us to support the site while not depending on advertising and the limitations that came with it. It's certainly not the backhanded cash-grab you are making it out to be.

Given you are in favor of going in the opposite direction and opening banned content to all users, I find your arguments here incredibly disingenuous and detrimental both to the artists and the site as a whole. Stirring up muck here can only lead to confrontation without a means of getting past it, which is completely unhelpful to all involved.

1