Posted under Tags
Since it's revealed early on that Mai Natsume is a guy magically transformed into a girl, but is (almost?) never seen in his original form, does the character still warrant a genderswap tag?
I'm guessing precedent could be Ranma-chan, but in this case we definitely see Ranma in male form.
The convention as seen on other sites, including e-hentai, is that if the character was originally a male, then no matter what, the item is tagged with the genderswap tag.
It's useful for those that might be interested in genderswap characters and/or stories. Those that don't know Mai Natsume is a genderswap character will be clued into that fact when looking at the tags for her pictures, which may drive them to further investigate the character and the series she is in, leading to potentially more fans of the series.
Updated
Just happened across this character and figured this should be brought up again, considering the consensus in topic #14515 was that cagliostro_(granblue_fantasy) shouldn't be tagged with genderswap by default. Both are characters whose genderswap occurred before the main story, and are usually depicted as female. Currently, mai_natsume -genderswap_(mtf) only finds a handful of posts, most of which are cosplay. Do any of those posts contain other MTF genderswaps? I don't know, finding those posts would be quite tough right now. If we were to no longer tag Mai Natsume with genderswap by default, someone would need to go through and make sure none of those posts have an actual genderswap in them.
Regarding people looking for genderswap characters, perhaps Cagliostro, Osaragi Hazumu, and Amatsuka Megumi could also be added to the list of genderswap characters page, with some sort of note for them and Mai that their genderswaps were before the main events of their series.
keonas said:
Yup, looks like the same scenario as for cagliostro_(granblue_fantasy) for Mai Natsume. Don't know about Osaragi Hazumu, and Amatsuka Megumi, if they did appear at the start as male or not.
Hazumu was a boy at the very beginning but only for part of the first chapter. We never get to see her face until after she becomes a girl, though.
Don't really agree with him/her being tagged with genderswap.
When I think of this tag the most intuitive usage would be when the genderswap is non-canonical in every way. If I know a character was genderswapped nce in a series then I also expect artist to take "advantage" of that and draw the character in the their other sex.
Just came upon this tag, and the consensus seems to be to remove the genderswap tag for when it only involves Mai Natsume. Since this hasn't been done yet, I'll start gardening this tag in the next couple of days and update the wikis as well.
That's fine. From what I can tell, there are only a handful of users still tagging her this way, and none of them are active on the forum.
I'd hazard a guess that the continued use of genderswap in this case is due to force of habit and the fact that it appears in the Related Tags for the character.
Updated
iridescent_slime said:
it appears in the Related Tags for the character.
I went ahead and edited Mai's wiki to remove the tag link to genderswap, which I think will stop this from happening.
Edit: ...or would if genderswap_(mtf) weren't still tagged on a large number of Mai posts, anyway.
Updated
BUR #2320 has been rejected.
mass update mai_natsume genderswap_(mtf) genderswap -> mai_natsume
Reason: Remove genderswap tags as per discussion. I'm assuming there aren't any cases where the genderswap tag is used for another character.
EDIT: The bulk update request #2320 (forum #163616) has been rejected by @evazion.
Updated by DanbooruBot
evazion said:
I'm assuming there aren't any cases where the genderswap tag is used for another character.
Bold, considering how popular mtf genderswaps are: post #3636087 has another mtf genderswap (blonde in the middle, see artist comment).
I checked through mai_natsume genderswap_(mtf) multiple_girls status:any and that’s the only one I found. I don’t know any of the Blazblue characters, though, so maybe someone more knowledgeable could check those posts too? It’s just 94 posts.
kittey said:
Bold, considering how popular mtf genderswaps are: post #3636087 has another mtf genderswap (blonde in the middle, see artist comment).
I checked through mai_natsume genderswap_(mtf) multiple_girls status:any and that’s the only one I found. I don’t know any of the Blazblue characters, though, so maybe someone more knowledgeable could check those posts too? It’s just 94 posts.
Someone already moved most of them. As for the rest, it got me thinking that perhaps we could use a genderswap request tag from someone that knows more about the series. It could be used on posts where it's unknown whether or not there is genderswap involved. Also, it could also be used on posts with the genderswap tag but not the genderswap (mtf) nor the genderswap (ftm) tags. There's currently just under 3K of those of those latter kind of posts.
BrokenEagle98 said:
As for the rest, it got me thinking that perhaps we could use a genderswap request tag from someone that knows more about the series. It could be used on posts where it's unknown whether or not there is genderswap involved.
I would suggest making the tag just gender request. It could do double duty for characters which, for whatever other reason, don't have an immediately obvious gender yet presumably do have one. A search like androgynous -1boy -1girl -multiple_boys -multiple_girls -1other -multiple_others unearths some of these, though also a lot of posts that are just missing any gender tags as an oversight.
Aside from the backlog of applicable existing posts, gender requests of either sort will probably be a somewhat rare situation.
Updated
BUR #2323 has been approved by @evazion.
mass update genderswap -genderswap_(mtf) -genderswap_(ftm) -> genderswap gender_request
mass update androgynous -1boy -1girl -multiple_boys -multiple_girls -1other -multiple_others -> androgynous gender_request
category gender_request -> meta
Reason: Creating a new request tag (gender_request) as per prior discussion.
If there are any other post searches that can be used to apply this request tag en masse, then please chime in below.
EDIT: This bulk update request is pending automatic rejection in 5 days.
EDIT: The bulk update request #2323 (forum #163668) has been approved by @evazion.
Updated by DanbooruBot
The bulk update request #2320 (forum #163616) has been rejected by @evazion.
I removed genderswap from most Mai Natsume posts manually. There are a few that still need to be checked.
Any more opinions on the creation of a gender request tag? I think it's fine for genderswap, but for androgynous I think there will be a lot of cases where the true gender is unknown and unknowable, especially for things like original characters, bad id posts, or characters with canonically unknown genders.
evazion said:
I think there will be a lot of cases where the true gender is unknown and unknowable, especially for things like original characters, bad id posts, or characters with canonically unknown genders.
My immediate thought is that situations like this can already happen with other request tags, such as artist request on post #4 (after 15 years I doubt anyone will ever find the artist,) and possibly some translation requests like post #2781697.
I suppose there's a difference between "it's incredibly unlikely this request will ever be fulfilled" and "this request is literally incapable of being fulfilled," but it seems kind of pedantic and often there's a state of ambiguity between the two. Say an artist draws something like post #2117945 and then later reveals the character's gender in post #2117960, gender request could serve as a useful reminder to apply the correct gender to the earlier post when or if it becomes known.
(Not the greatest example, I know, considering post #2117960's upload date on pixiv was the earlier of the two, and there was no visual reason to suspect caltina (pepekekeko) wasn't female from the earlier drawings of him.)
