Oh fuck it you two have your way I'm not going to bother arguing this anymore.
chainedwind said:
Wouldn't you just type "male long_hair"?
No but I don't care enough to explain why.
Posted under General
reese said: Using the same logic, shouldn't we use long hair for male characters only because most female characters have long hair?
No. It's actually a lot more even for females. At the moment, assuming short_hair and long_hair are overwhelmingly used for female characters (safe assumption), we have ~80,000 short_hair and ~110,000 long_hair. That's fairly nicely split up.
I'm not against using long_hair for males, in theory, though.
jxh2154 said:
we have ~80,000 short_hair and ~110,000 long_hair. That's fairly nicely split up.
And also very stupid, since about 95% of posts tagged with short_hair aren't. I hate it, but I haven't really got to the point where I'd do something about it.
葉月 said: And also very stupid, since about 95% of posts tagged with short_hair aren't.
That sounds like a pretty extreme interpretation, even though the tag is already subjective to begin with.
jxh2154 said:
we have ~80,000 short_hair and ~110,000 long_hair. That's fairly nicely split up.I'm not against using long_hair for males, in theory, though.
I do not have complete confidence in those statistic mainly because of how much does not tagged.
Fencedude said:
It would probably be worthwhile (though an enormous pain) to differentiate between "short" hair and the more standard "shoulder length" hair.
Agreed.
Fencedude said:
It would probably be worthwhile (though an enormous pain) to differentiate between "short" hair and the more standard "shoulder length" hair.
Why not leave the standard (shoulder length) untagged, like normal short hair is untagged for male characters, and just specify in short_hair that it must be above shoulder length?
jxh2154 said:
That sounds like a pretty extreme interpretation, even though the tag is already subjective to begin with.
But it's true. It's mostly things like post #535209. It even gives Konpaku Youmu as a canonical example of short-haired character, which she is *not* in most depictions.
葉月 said: But it's true. It's mostly things like post #535209. It even gives Konpaku Youmu as a canonical example of short-haired character, which she is *not* in most depictions.
Given that we don't have a reference length "Hair that stops at or before the [body part]; [Does/Does not] include locks of hair that may be longer", you can't state that as an objective fact.
I have no problem with people creating such a reference length, however. Go for it. Personally, I don't use either tag much outside original so I don't have much of an opinion on what that length should be, other than to state the obvious that it shouldn't be anything extending past the shoulders.
My rule of thumb has always been this: if the back of the hair reaches lower than the shoulders it's long_hair; if it's lower than the waist, it's very_long_hair; if it doesn't reach the shoulders it's short_hair; if it's just at the shoulders or is impossible to tell, it gets left untagged.
Konpaku Youmu almost always fits my definition of short_hair. So if that's a problem, I'm probably part of it. If we're going to say that an above the shoulders bob isn't short_hair, I propose a massive expansion of bob_cut.
Updated
Shinjidude said:
My rule of thumb has always been this: if the back of the hair reaches lower than the shoulders it's long_hair; if it's lower than the waist, it's very_long_hair; if it doesn't reach the shoulders it's short_hair; if it's just at the shoulders or is impossible to tell, it gets left untagged.
That's pretty much what I think of as short/long/vlong.
If we're going to say that an above the shoulders bob isn't short_hair, I propose a massive expansion of bob_cut.
I'm pretty sure a bob cut is a hairstyle rather than a length, though. You could have hair in that length category which is styled differently -- e.g., according to my friends, a short "straight cut" is not the same thing as a short "bob cut".
According to Shinjidude's definitions, there is no "normal length hair" which merits neither long hair/very long hair nor short hair. I think that's a problem. I generally only tag long hair if it's significantly below the shoulder line, maybe reaching to the small of the back. For very long hair, reaching to the upper legs or even the feet would be required for me to tag it as such. I'd keep short hair as "above the shoulder line", though.
0xCCBA696 said:
According to Shinjidude's definitions, there is no "normal length hair" which merits neither long hair/very long hair nor short hair.
Pretty sure his definition had "shoulder length" as the normal length, hence "untagged". The official wiki definition of v. long hair is that it's long enough to sit on, which makes it the only hairlength with an absolute definition.
Updated
0xCCBA696 said:
According to Shinjidude's definitions, there is no "normal length hair" which merits neither long hair/very long hair nor short hair. I think that's a problem.
chainedwind said:
Pretty sure his definition had "shoulder length" as the normal length, hence "untagged".
My rule of thumb does allow for a medium shoulder-length untagged category, but it's very narrow. If I'm hearing 0xCCBA696 and Hazuki correctly, they are saying we should expand this untagged middle ground.
If we do though, we'll need to establish a guideline for it, and I'd like to see us have a tag for it if it's going to be significant, maybe medium_hair.
0xCCBA696 said:
I generally only tag long hair if it's significantly below the shoulder line, maybe reaching to the small of the back.
If we set the guidelines for medium_hair as reaching down from the shoulders to mid-back, that eats away a lot of long_hair and none of short_hair.
This is the opposite direction from Hazuki's argument which was that an above-the-shoulder cut like Konpaku_Youmu should not be short_hair.
I'm not necessarily against a new middle length tag, but I think it will be harder to define a baseline for as opposed to using the shoulders as the guide.
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chainedwind said:
I'm pretty sure a bob cut is a hairstyle rather than a length, though. You could have hair in that length category which is styled differently -- e.g., according to my friends, a short "straight cut" is not the same thing as a short "bob cut".
Yes, I agree, but most bobs seem to be in the Konpaku_Youmu, longer-than-Hazuki-likes-for-short range. And a great many of the cuts in that range are bobs.
I was only saying that if we didn't introduce a medium_hair tag, and instead expanded the range of untagged hair lengths, we ought to tag the appropriate bobs as bob_cut such that they had some representation in the tag list. As it is, most bobs just get short_hair.
This topic mentioned using the long hair tag for male characters and I couldn't find another, more recent thread about this. Would there be any interest in making a tag called something like long haired male? Currently, the tag short hair is not used for male characters, however long hair is. For the purposes of searching, a tag like long haired male (or even medium haired male for characters like Kagamine Len as mentioned above) is similar in format to toned male or dark skinned male, and could be useful since male characters with long hair are a smaller number of posts.