Posted under Tags
Additionally, Santa Alter is a completely different class, which by the rules of Grand Order makes her a fully separate character in her own right. That alone warrants her having her own tag, given how much fanart this form gets. This isn't like Nero or Tamamo's regalia outfits, which are just the base servant with a powerup.
mj1234 said:
edit: artoria_pendragon_(swimsuit_archer) shouldn't be implicated with saber
So post #1545811 should be tagged with saber, and post #2465196 shouldn't.
It's a good thing that we have the meta category now because I can't know from the picture only if the character is saber with a white bikini, swimsuit_archer or saber cosplaying as swimsuit_archer (and what about swimsuit_archer cosplaying as saber with her strapless bikini ?). It's completely meta !
I don't think saber_alter and santa_alter should be separated unless we're making a catchall tag for Artoria Alters, but I'm not sure many people would agree with a catchall in a catchall.
Though if we're talking about merit for tags of characters in different outfits, I still really don't like tamamo_jk_(fate). A tag for a character that is also named Tamamo, looks visually identical to Tamamo, wearing an outfit Tamamo had already worn in a previous scene (and in promotional art), shows up only in a single gag scene, and contains more images that are definitely Tamamo no Mae in a uniform than images that are definitely this "new character"?
WakuWaku said:
I don't think saber_alter and santa_alter should be separated unless we're making a catchall tag for Artoria Alters, but I'm not sure many people would agree with a catchall in a catchall.
Though if we're talking about merit for tags of characters in different outfits, I still really don't like tamamo_jk_(fate). A tag for a character that is also named Tamamo, looks visually identical to Tamamo, wearing an outfit Tamamo had already worn in a previous scene (and in promotional art), shows up only in a single gag scene, and contains more images that are definitely Tamamo no Mae in a uniform than images that are definitely this "new character"?
No.
And this is exactly the error that was done with Fate:
Every single costume gets a new character tag while tamamo_jk was a simply "tomamo_no_mae_(fate) school_uniform" search.
The same goes for all the Swimsuit version and visually it doesn't matter what personality the characters have. If you want a Mordred in bikini or in her normal uniform then we have tags for these as well...
Speaking of Santa Alter...a search containing christmas, santa_outfit, winter etc. should do it. Considering it is tagged correctly. The Santa tags seem unecessary to me.
It's true that general tags are heavily underutilized but that's no reason to create this many character tags. There's characters with hundreds of pictures dedicated to alternate outfits and none of these outfits get their own tag. KanColle characters are a good example, as they get new outfits every few months and the popularity of the game nets it more fanart than FGO. Even the original Saber has her casual, battle, wedding dress, etc. outfits that are covered only by general tags.
I also don't see how the "rules" are relevant in a fanart website. We don't have to distinguish visually identical characters.
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Tagwise we distinguish Prisma Illya from Illyasviel von Einzbern, Super Sailor Moon from Sailor Moon from Tsukino Usagi, Ultimate Madoka from Madoka Magica (is this even an official character name) from Kaname Madoka, Cure Black from Misumi Nagisa, ShinkenRed from Shiba Takeru, Go-On Red from Esumi Sousuke, etc. Should we should replace those for [name magical_girl], [name henshin_form], [name super_form], etc.?
willsolvit said:
KanColle characters are a good example, as they get new outfits every few months and the popularity of the game nets it more fanart than FGO.
Give me a single example of a kancolle costume netting at least 109 images, which is what Nobu, the swimsuit servant with the least images, currently has.
Chiera said:
No.
And this is exactly the error that was done with Fate:
Every single costume gets a new character tag while tamamo_jk was a simply "tomamo_no_mae_(fate) school_uniform" search.
The same goes for all the Swimsuit version and visually it doesn't matter what personality the characters have. If you want a Mordred in bikini or in her normal uniform then we have tags for these as well...
Speaking of Santa Alter...a search containing christmas, santa_outfit, winter etc. should do it. Considering it is tagged correctly. The Santa tags seem unecessary to me.
Bullshit.
The mistake has never been about too many tags. That has never been the problem. I didn't start this because of that.
The mistake was in absolutely inconsistent tagging schemes making a mess of everything, including a doomed effort to keep trying to do class_(franchise), which was broken as early as Extra with Gawain, along with unwieldy nested implications instead of adding one more tag to serve as an umbrella and flatten the hierarchy (which, as a side effect, reduced the number of character tags per page for the majority of cases). And seriously: Who the fuck cares if there's more characters tags floating in the namespace. It's already full of a billion useless tags born from typos or whatnot, because the system doesn't actually erase tags with 0 posts.
Rignak said:
So post #1545811 should be tagged with saber, and post #2465196 shouldn't.
It's a good thing that we have the meta category now because I can't know from the picture only if the character is saber with a white bikini, swimsuit_archer or saber cosplaying as swimsuit_archer (and what about swimsuit_archer cosplaying as saber with her strapless bikini ?). It's completely meta !
You tell them apart because they have different swimsuits. If you can't tell those apart, then let someone else tag it. And you need to know anyways, because we are supposed to tag the source material of the outfit! The first one would be FHA, the second FGO, in your example.
And like G-SANtos says, we already tag a bunch of alternate outfits. Here's another example: Akuma Homura shows up in like 5 minutes near the end of the movie and is a massive spoiler and it's not even an official name and yet nobody contests that tag.
But nooooooooo, Fate has ~too many tags~ and ~can't reveal spoilers~.
Rignak said:
So post #1545811 should be tagged with saber, and post #2465196 shouldn't.
It's a good thing that we have the meta category now because I can't know from the picture only if the character is saber with a white bikini, swimsuit_archer or saber cosplaying as swimsuit_archer (and what about swimsuit_archer cosplaying as saber with her strapless bikini ?). It's completely meta !
Anyone can tell at first glance those are entirely different characters. The hair and the bikini with white and blue lines for starters...
KyteM said:
Give me a single example of a kancolle costume netting at least 109 images, which is what Nobu, the swimsuit servant with the least images, currently has.
Bullshit.
The mistake has never been about too many tags. That has never been the problem. I didn't start this because of that.
Of course that has been a mistake.
Fate tags are an absolute clutter and the normal has no idea how to wade through the tags and uploaders are mistagging.
Why else do you think there is right now a problem with three char tags for one single character (post #2940458).
It is overly bloated to have 6 char tags for only 2 persons present in an image.
Meaning, the more tags you have the higher is the risk of misuse and we could simply go around this problem with nuking char tags by emphasizing general tags more. The Swimsuit versions could be tagged with the character + swimsuit just fine.
KyteM said:
Give me a single example of a kancolle costume netting at least 109 images, which is what Nobu, the swimsuit servant with the least images, currently has.
Post count for remodel_(kantai_collection) solo sendai_(kantai_collection): 611
Post count for remodel_(kantai_collection) solo yuudachi_(kantai_collection) : 1913
Post count for remodel_(kantai_collection) solo shigure_(kantai_collection) : 1693
You clearly have no knowledge of other copyrights if you even need to ask something like that. Kantai Collection is way, WAY more popular than Fate/Grand Order. Just look at the Comiket numbers by copyright.
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KyteM said:
Give me a single example of a kancolle costume netting at least 109 images, which is what Nobu, the swimsuit servant with the least images, currently has.
If you seriously think the popularity of Nobu compares to KanColle I don't know what to say to you, but to answer your question:
shigure_(kantai_collection) swimsuit
tenryuu_(kantai_collection) swimsuit
The summer versions of two KanColle characters and we're already well over 1000 pictures. The difference is that we're able to suffice with just the swimsuit and bikini general tags. The thing is that KanColle is full of random official outfits that get a lot of attention (more examples being suzuya_(kantai_collection) christmas mutsu_(kantai_collection) kimono). According to your logic, they should all have their own character tags to make searching easier. However, because the characters get new outfits every month or so it would create a slew of character tags we genuinely don't need. If it can be searched with one character tag and one general tag we shouldn't overcomplicate things with so many character tags that a catchall is necessary.
If you want to nuke a bunch of tags, then propose it as an actual BUR in a new thread. This thread is going in circles because too many people are arguing over too many different things at once, without making concrete proposals of what exactly should be done. Make an actual BUR listing exactly what tags to change so that a clear yes/no decision can be made.
G-SANtos said:
Ultimate Madoka from Madoka Magica (is this even an official character name)
Yes, it's definitely official: post #999587
Does KC have the different costumed versions meeting each other and have spoken lines when seeing each other. If not, then it's not a good comparison because FGO does this, and that's perfectly consistent with the lore specifically saying all Servants are clones of the figure they are based on.
EB said:
Yes, it's definitely official: post #999587
I was actually asking about the name Madoka Magica. Is that an official name for the form?
WakuWaku said:
Though if we're talking about merit for tags of characters in different outfits, I still really don't like tamamo_jk_(fate). A tag for a character that is also named Tamamo, looks visually identical to Tamamo, wearing an outfit Tamamo had already worn in a previous scene (and in promotional art), shows up only in a single gag scene, and contains more images that are definitely Tamamo no Mae in a uniform than images that are definitely this "new character"?
Didn't you learn anything when Mysterious Heroine X got promoted from April Fools gag to playable character with her own backstory? MHX is proof that even gag characters count as characters. It's only a matter of time until Kamikaze Jeanne becomes a playable Caster, and maybe even Phantas-Moon too.
Didn't you learn anything when Mysterious Heroine X got promoted from April Fools gag to playable character with her own backstory? MHX is proof that even gag characters count as characters. It's only a matter of time until Kamikaze Jeanne becomes a playable Caster, and maybe even Phantas-Moon too.
Then add her when that happens. Right now a big difference between "Tamamo" and the characters you listed is that she has ZERO visually unique characteristics. She doesn't even have her own name. And most importantly, almost none of the art in the tag can be said with any certainty to be her. There's maybe 1 image in the whole tag I would say is probably this new character, and that's based entirely off looking at the artists comment rather than the image because again, zero visual difference. Many of the images can be said with certainty to NOT be that character though, as they reference a scene with Tamamo no Mae wearing the JK uniform.
My two cents: While I may be a fan of the Fate series, from a tagging and user-friendly standpoint these tags are a fucking mess. We should use tags intuitively instead of clinging tightly to a "canon" as a rigid guideline.
Obviously visually distinct characters like Lancer and Saber Artoria being separate are fine, in my opinion, while characters who look the same barring a costume should probably be brought under one umbrella.
mj1234 said:
Anyone can tell at first glance those are entirely different characters. The hair and the bikini with white and blue lines for starters...
That's just flat out wrong.
In literally any other franchise these two elements would not, in any way, be a giveaway of a "different character," and would just justify adding alternate_hairstyle and swimsuit tags. Fate is the absolute exception here, and it's certainly not obvious as you make it seem unless you're well acquainted with the franchise.
