Without material interesting enough to justify it, they really don't stand on their artwork alone IMO.
Also, I've been seeing a lot of these bypass the moderation queue, when they probably should be signed off by someone else. All the images in the above favgroup are like that. Should such images be sent back to go through the queue? The only exceptions might be if they are a part of a long-running series.
As a last thought, what about the idea of a tag to add to such posts, like very_sketchy or very_rough. It would help identify such images that need closer review, since the level of sketchiness isn't always apparent from the thumbnail itself. Additionally, some may not want to see such images, and so they could filter them out with a blacklist.
Without material interesting enough to justify it, they really don't stand on their artwork alone IMO.
Also, I've been seeing a lot of these bypass the moderation queue, when they probably should be signed off by someone else. All the images in the above favgroup are like that. Should such images be sent back to go through the queue? The only exceptions might be if they are a part of a long-running series.
As a last thought, what about the idea of a tag to add to such posts, like very_sketchy or very_rough. It would help identify such images that need closer review, since the level of sketchiness isn't always apparent from the thumbnail itself. Additionally, some may not want to see such images, and so they could filter them out with a blacklist.
Those are all comics and are therefore set to a lower standard since the art itself isn't always in the foreground of this content. Well, of course they have to meet a certain standard, but to send all of them through the queue just because doesn'T seem to make that much sense to me.
This is a topic people seem to shy away from. Danbooru is supposed to be a High quality art repository, not a low quality Dōjinshi gallery. It would of course take an enormous effort to find and flag even the more resent sketch quality comics but I do feel we need to find a way to raise the bar in some way.
The problem is that you can be uploading a long comic series and then suddenly come across a page that doesn't meet your typical standards for uploads. You're then left with a dilemma over whether to leave an awkward gap in the series or uploading a below-par image.
Personally, I have always gone with uploading them, and they have always been approved, although in at least 3 cases went through a period of deletion (in one case for several months) first.
My position would basically be that if it's a minority of an otherwise sufficiently well-drawn series then it should be allowable, but if it's the entire series like this (or a single-page standalone comic) then it probably shouldn't. We allow text only pages and blank pages if they add to an otherwise fine series, so why not allow pages with subpar art in the same vein?
Incidentally, if I were to ever get unrestricted uploads, the first thing I would use them for is to start uploading a series that I don't currently feel confident in uploading because quite a few pages from early on in the series weren't good enough for me to feel they're upload-worthy by themselves, but since which time the artist has improved considerably and the art quality of the series with it.
This is a topic people seem to shy away from. Danbooru is supposed to be a High quality art repository, not a low quality Dōjinshi gallery. It would of course take an enormous effort to find and flag even the more resent sketch quality comics but I do feel we need to find a way to raise the bar in some way.
That is probably wrong. We have here western art, too. And while doujins or comics shouldn'T be uploaded en masse, Danbooru is still a place people go to find amusement, be it in form of erotic art or funny comics. The line between approval and disapproval might be thin, but those posts are also part of Danbooru. An image quality isn't only restricted to the drawing skills, but also what is depicted. Otherwise post #2805965 might still be deleted if it weren't funny.
That is probably wrong. We have here western art, too. And while doujins or comics shouldn'T be uploaded en masse, Danbooru is still a place people go to find amusement, be it in form of erotic art or funny comics. The line between approval and disapproval might be thin, but those posts are also part of Danbooru. An image quality isn't only restricted to the drawing skills, but also what is depicted. Otherwise post #2805965 might still be deleted if it weren't funny.
BrokenEagle98 said: (excerpt)
Without material interesting enough to justify it, they really don't stand on their artwork alone IMO.
Good art isn't that hard to distinguish for the most part. Good material on the other hand, can be a lot harder to tell. You might think something is the bees knees or LOL, but everyone else are like *YAWN* or *UGH*. I myself have uploaded very sketchy images, but I also sent those to the queue to make sure that someone else thought that the material was worthy.
If i can't read the language the comic is written in, I will not only consider art quality, but also if it looks interesting by what's depicted visually. Two people standing around talking with the same facial expression the entire time won't get my attention.
I'll break rank and say that I think there's artistic merit in posts that are sketched well. It's just an art style at some point -- be that good or bad. That being said, I do think there's a huge difference between comics and one off sketchy things. post #2852737 isn't the most popular post, for example, but proportionally? It's pretty good. It's a sketchy thing, but it's not what I would call bad.
To conclude, I think that there are reasonable enough art guidelines as it stands, but a tag would be a good addon. It would let people blacklist and filter, and allow people to continue the way they're going.
If people are bulk uploading low quality sketches, that's the same as other low quality art, and should be frowned upon. Likewise, if they're continually approving low quality sketches.
I personally have an increasing problem with these posts:
They take up much space.
Many are not even translated. - so i do not even understand them
Hard to keep them in the right sequence.
90%+ do not match what i personally enjoy on Danbooru. [art/ero/fetish/etc]
A very simple personal solution for me might be adding the line "comic rating:safe" to my blacklist. Though i am worried this might half the images i'm going to see per page.
While i am PROevery new image file - i am also worried about the quality we can expect per image and how new users experience the site. I think we all agree that the last thing we want to become is a r34 ripoff... On that node - i'd personally really want some more high quality furry images lol.
Such a tag would be quite subjective though, right? Kinda like the poorly drawn tag we got rid of a year ago.
I do agree that post #2852737 is fine but we do get things like post #2868383, post #2880366 and post #2790178. I could flag them all but I am already the top flagger on the site and I do fear the mods would get annoyed if I use all of my ten flags every day.
I personally only upload very sketchy posts if I like them a lot or if they already exist on site and I found a superior versions. I don't see the problem with keeping them on site if the artstyle is good but only the lines are rough. post #2880366 for example is pretty fine imo. The proportions are good and nobody would have a problem with it if the lines were just a bit thicker. post #2868383 in turn is part of a series (though it hasn't been pooled yet because nobody could come up with a title), as you can see from glancing at soubi's artist page.
A very_rough tag (which I support) would make it possible to filter these further from the sketch tag (which is already watered down due to artists tagging everything that didn't take a month to draw as "rkgk").
m368 said:
I personally have an increasing problem with these posts:
They take up much space.
Many are not even translated. - so i do not even understand them
Hard to keep them in the right sequence.
If you're worried about them taking space then you should consider status:deleted score:<0: 24k posts.
ion288 said: I could flag them all but I am already the top flagger on the site and I do fear the mods would get annoyed if I use all of my ten flags every day.
Nobody will get annoyed/angry if your flag all go through. It starts being a problem if a high percentage of them is resolved, but from here (unless I'm reading it wrong) I see only few of your flags don't end up with a deletion, so there shouldn't be a problem. In fact, even if the total daily flags doubled in number it still wouldn't be much compared to the amount of posts normally sitting in the queue every day. This isn't to say that you should flag everything you don't like! But if you see something of very low quality that you think doesn't belong on the site, you shouldn't leave it alone just because you already flagged several other low quality posts the same day.
I think however it's important to distinguish between "bad/low quality" and "rough sketch" - one does not at all imply the other. I don't think any of the three posts you linked as example are "bad" personally.
↑ You may have shot yourself in the foot there by suggesting I dont restrict my flagging and telling me there is an entire pool of rough drawings. :]
Anyway we seem to have two topics here. Do we want a tag for "sketchy" images and should posts in comics and series have a minimum quality level.
While I am tentatively in favour of a tag I do think there is potential for abuse there. Similarly to poorly drawn people could tag any image they dont like with it.
The second issue is of course more contentious. Take pool #11675 as an example. Is the story of Ganondorf possessing Zelda and Link "screwing" him out of her enough to justify the bad artwork? (Sure, some of the images are kinda OK but most of it isnt IMO.)
Just tag it as sketch. Rough_sketch is also aliased to it and that's what this topic seems to be about.. We don't have to do rocket science for everything.
Just tag it as sketch. Rough_sketch is also aliased to it and that's what this topic seems to be about.. We don't have to do rocket science for everything.
The point here is that currently sketch doesn't describe the end of the spectrum where pictures are very rough and chicken-scratched.
ion288 said:
↑ You may have shot yourself in the foot there by suggesting I dont restrict my flagging and telling me there is an entire pool of rough drawings. :]
Anyway we seem to have two topics here. Do we want a tag for "sketchy" images and should posts in comics and series have a minimum quality level.
While I am tentatively in favour of a tag I do think there is potential for abuse there. Similarly to poorly drawn people could tag any image they dont like with it.
The second issue is of course more contentious. Take pool #11675 as an example. Is the story of Ganondorf possessing Zelda and Link "screwing" him out of her enough to justify the bad artwork? (Sure, some of the images are kinda OK but most of it isnt IMO.)
Keep still in mind that you should only flag something if you strongly believe it doesn't belong on danbooru - don't go and flag entire series of comics just because they are a bit rough. Also, you should judge a pic as a whole rather than just from how it looks. Sometimes a pic can be funny enough that even if it's a bit bad looking it still belongs on the site. You shouldn't go out of your way to justify why something needs to be deleted - if it's not apparent enough at first glance it probably deserves to stay.
As for your example pool, to be honest I would flag that because it's basically a badly drawn sex-only doujinshi with no real redeeming qualities in the story, but I'd wait for someone else to chime in. In fact I'd rather post it in topic #8984 simply because it's a series of more than 10 posts (more than a normal user can flag in a day).
The point here is that currently sketch doesn't describe the end of the spectrum where pictures are very rough and chicken-scratched. .
Actually, it does and should. Rough sketch is already an evaluation and we shouldn't just image quality by subjective tags (what is "rough"). I guess it's ok that this alias exists and we should judge sketches on each post again. So we treat them the same as every other image and such a tag would already create a bias towards deletion, like the "poorly drawn" tag.
I don't believe that sketches are a bad thing. I do believe that some sketches are very rough, and somewhat gray area. However, the current tagging schema does not allow one to filter these out.
So do I flag all those that look like favgroup:2573, or should we create a (somewhat more) subjective tag that would allow users to filter these out? It wouldn't be quite like the poorly_drawn tag either, as what makes something poorly drawn is purely subjective, whereas a very_sketchy tag would be a grade against the level of sketchiness. Having a sufficient number of examples in the wiki would help guide others towards what should be tagged.
As an alternative approach, this concept could be done as a pool. As a reference, pools can be blacklisted, and they can also be more subjective.
I don't believe that sketches are a bad thing. I do believe that some sketches are very rough, and somewhat gray area. However, the current tagging schema does not allow one to filter these out.
So do I flag all those that look like favgroup:2573, or should we create a (somewhat more) subjective tag that would allow users to filter these out? It wouldn't be quite like the poorly_drawn tag either, as what makes something poorly drawn is purely subjective, whereas a very_sketchy tag would be a grade against the level of sketchiness. Having a sufficient number of examples in the wiki would help guide others towards what should be tagged.
As an alternative approach, this concept could be done as a pool. As a reference, pools can be blacklisted, and they can also be more subjective.
+1 for a very_sketchy/very_rough tag. However rough sketch would have to be unaliased from sketch and aliased to this new tag.
Looking through to see what I think of them, I'd be iffy about these kinds of images being flagged. post #2906716 doesn't really look all that "sketchy". Some of shiromi_(15741279)'s posts in the favgroup do look so sketchy that I might not think of approving if it randomly came up to me, but there's some character to them that I feel is worth keeping on the site. post #2918691 and post #2918689 are the kind I would really object to be flagged. Somewhat sketchy, but they're pretty pleasant.
