[REJECTED] [fate] Update jeanne tags

remove implication jeanne_alter -> ruler_(fate/apocrypha)
remove implication jeanne_alter_(santa_lily)_(fate) -> jeanne_alter
create alias jeanne_alter_(santa_lily)_(fate) -> jeanne_alter_(santa_lily)
create alias ruler_(fate/apocrypha) -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)
create implication jeanne_alter -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)
create implication jeanne_alter_(santa_lily) -> jeanne_alter

Link to request

From forum topic #13728.

It's about time we start fixing these after the decision was made. Move ruler_(fate/apocrypha) to jeanne_d'arc_(fate) and eliminate the fate qualifier on jeanne_alter_(santa_lily)_(fate) (the risk of collision is very low). If there are any missing tags or issues, please raise them in this topic.

EDIT: The bulk update request #1379 (forum #139005) has been rejected by @albert.

As an alternative we could eliminate all the implications to jeanne_d'arc_(fate) and create an umbrella tag to group all the jeanne spinoffs. That seems to be the direction taken with (some) of the artoria tags.

I think it's better to have an umbrella tag for all spin-offs rather than implying everything to the base form. (So you can search for images with both in it)

I already proposed a bulk in forum #134237

G-SANtos said:

remove implication jeanne_alter_(santa_lily)_(fate) -> jeanne_alter
remove implication jeanne_alter -> ruler_(fate/apocrypha)
mass update jeanne_alter_(santa_lily)_(fate)_(cosplay) -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_santa_lily_(cosplay)
mass update jeanne_alter_(santa_lily)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_santa_lily
mass update jeanne_alter_(cosplay) -> jeanne_d'arc_(alter)_(fate)_(cosplay)
mass update jeanne_alter -> jeanne_d'arc_(alter)_(fate)
create implication ruler_(fate/apocrypha) -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)_(all)
create implication jeanne_d'arc_(alter)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)_(all)
create implication jeanne_d'arc_alter_santa_lily -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)_(all)

Link to request

Continuing with retagging project. I chose Jeanne this time because she seems to be the one with the most images after Artoria.
jeanne_d'arc_(fate)_(all) instead of jeanne_d'arc_(fate) so that the later can be used for Ruler in case it's decided to use True Names for pre-GO Servants.

Full name because that's the usual practice in Danbooru and because it's technically posible for the Fate series to introduce another character named Jeanne unrelated to Jeanne d'Arc.

jeanne_d'arc_alter_santa_lily instead of jeanne_d'arc_(alter_santa_lily) because her official profile doesn't use parenthesis for the Alter Santa Lily, unlike other Alter and Lily Servants, almost as if it's intended to be a full name, and no (fate) parser because that name by itself is already distinct enough to not be mistaken for any other Jeanne d'Arc character, and, if we interprete this as a full name, is technically a different name from Jeanne d'Arc.

albert said:

As an alternative we could eliminate all the implications to jeanne_d'arc_(fate) and create an umbrella tag to group all the jeanne spinoffs. That seems to be the direction taken with (some) of the artoria tags.

I would be in favor of taking the Artoria route with her. The three forms all look distinct from each other, to where it feels worthwhile to have them separate and implicated to an umbrella tag. Things like post #2549915 and post #2589870 are difficult to search for when the dual persona tag is frequently forgotten. Though an even better argument for it is cross-form cosplay where there's no potential tag combination to use at all at the moment (post #2582993, post #2605257)

G-SANtos said:

I already proposed a bulk in forum #134237

+1

+1 on G-SANtos's request, though I would be with albert in nixing this from the current request:

create implication ruler_(fate/apocrypha) -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)_(all)

In favor of this:

create alias ruler_(fate/apocrypha) -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)
create implication jeanne_d'arc_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)_(all)

I don't think santa lily needs the alter qualifier since it seems unlikely they'd create a santa lily version for another persona. I would also argue anything tagged with alter doesn't need a fate qualifier.

So combining the two I'd propose this:

remove implication jeanne_alter_(santa_lily)_(fate) -> jeanne_alter
remove implication jeanne_alter -> ruler_(fate/apocrypha)
mass update jeanne_alter_(santa_lily)_(fate)_(cosplay) -> jeanne_d'arc_(santa_lily)_(cosplay)
mass update jeanne_alter_(santa_lily)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_(santa_lily)
mass update jeanne_alter_(cosplay) -> jeanne_d'arc_(alter)_(cosplay)
mass update jeanne_alter -> jeanne_d'arc_(alter)
create alias ruler_(fate/apocrypha) -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)
create implication jeanne_d'arc_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)_(all)
create implication jeanne_d'arc_(alter) -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)_(all)
create implication jeanne_d'arc_(santa_lily) -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)_(all)

Regarding the different costumes, I'd suggest just coming up with a secondary tag. The Shinjuku version is Jeanne Alter still. I think alternate costume is sufficient but maybe shinjuku costume would also work.

I repeat, Santa Lily should be jeanne d'arc alter santa lily because her official name as stated in her official profile is ジャンヌ・ダルク・オルタ・サンタ・リリィ, unlike Jeanne d'Arc (Alter) (ジャンヌ・ダルク〔オルタ〕) and other Alter Servants. I would say in her case it's treated as a personal name the same way as Dave Jones, John Smith, or Tarō Yamada.

As for why my suggestion didn't include updating ruler (fate/apocrypha) into jeanne d'arc (fate), it's because I requested the bulk before we reached a True Name consensus, and I never edited it since then.

albert said:

I would also argue anything tagged with alter doesn't need a fate qualifier.

I did it that way because of the claim that people could search [name]_*_(fate) to get all versions at once, but on second thought, that doesn't make much sense with an (all) tag. So, we just have to keep watch in case a copyright named Alter ever shows up. In fact, there's already a figure company named Alter, so maybe someone should keep an eye in case they ever announce an original Jeanne d'Arc character.

I did it that way because of the claim that people could search [name]_*_(fate) to get all versions at once, but on second thought, that doesn't make much sense with an (all) tag. So, we just have to keep watch in case a copyright named Alter ever shows up. In fact, there's already a figure company named Alter, so maybe someone should keep an eye in case they ever announce an original Jeanne d'Arc character.

I remember now, the purpose was for characters that wouldn't get *_(all) parser due to having too few forms. I think the idea was that characters with only two forms (or a similarly small number), like Mordred, wouldn't get a catchall tag. But I don't think we ever discussed in detail how this would work.

Also, I updated my bulk request, with the alias for Jeanne.

remove implication jeanne_alter_(santa_lily)_(fate) -> jeanne_alter
remove implication jeanne_alter -> ruler_(fate/apocrypha)

mass update jeanne_alter_(santa_lily)_(fate)_(cosplay) -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_santa_lily_(cosplay)
mass update jeanne_alter_(santa_lily)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_alter_santa_lily
mass update jeanne_alter_(cosplay) -> jeanne_d'arc_(alter)_(fate)_(cosplay)
mass update jeanne_alter -> jeanne_d'arc_(alter)_(fate)

create implication ruler_(fate/apocrypha) -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)_(all)
create alias ruler_(fate/apocrypha) -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)
create implication jeanne_d'arc_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)_(all)
create implication jeanne_d'arc_(alter)_(fate) -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)_(all)
create implication jeanne_d'arc_alter_santa_lily -> jeanne_d'arc_(fate)_(all)

I'll deal with ruler (fate/apocrypha) (cosplay) manually, unless someone else does it first, once the bulk is approved.

The bulk update request #1379 (forum #139005) has been rejected by @albert.

I've approved G-SANtos's original request.

I copy-pasted the wiki info for jeanne d'arc (alter) (fate) and jeanne d'arc alter santa lily. I also finished the changed the leftover images to jeanne d'arc (fate) (cosplay).

Finished the cosplay retagging with two deleted images.

EDIT: By the way, shouldn't jeanne d'arc (fate) (all) be a character tag like artoria pendragon (all)? Or do we intend to change's Artoria's into a general tag?