Posted under Tags
create implication knee_boots -> kneehighs
topic #1388
On the other hand, knee highs applies to hosiery, what thighhighs, thigh boots and knee boots don't.
Personally, I'm not for this implication (I'd even nuking the implication from thigh boot to thighhighs but that would only end in a massive retagging work, so not so good).
I don't know about this implication. topic #1388 talks about the reasons why thigh_boots -> thighhighs is a thing. Calling @NWF_Renim here since he was one of the primary arguers for that implication.
Basically, the argument was that if you discount the "boot" portion of the thigh boots, that many of them were visually indistinguishable from thighhighs. I just did a preliminary search, and the same doesn't seem to apply for knee boots.
BrokenEagle98 said:
I don't know about this implication. topic #1388 talks about the reasons why thigh_boots -> thighhighs is a thing. Calling @NWF_Renim here since he was one of the primary arguers for that implication.
Basically, the argument was that if you discount the "boot" portion of the thigh boots, that many of them were visually indistinguishable from thighhighs. I just did a preliminary search, and the same doesn't seem to apply for knee boots.
Well, a thigh boot and a thighhighs is pretty good distinguishable
-> post #2323624 (thighhigh)
-> post #2322204, post #2317347 (thigh boots)
-> post #1965468 (Both)
A thighhigh is pretty skin thight while a thigh boot isn't. Most of the time there is a little gap between the skin and the boot. If it's a cowbow shot and it doesn't feel that there's this gap, only thighhighs should be added.
Provence, I think you rely too much on naming similarity when you make these proposals instead of how the tags are defined and the visual populations that make them up.
You used post #2322204 as a clear cut example of thigh boot, except if you covered up the foot portion you'd have no actual means of identifying it between a thigh boot or thigh stocking. Doing a random search of thigh boots and drawing up 100 images, I easily found 33 (so 33%) of the images had no real way of differentiating themselves from a stocking unless you could see the foot portion of it.
On the other hand doing a similar search with knee boot didn't yield a single result that could be confused with a knee sock. The reason for this though is pretty simple, and that's because being a much shorter object it is harder to not include the portion that identifies them as a boot. It's much more likely the entire item all together will get cutout of the image than leave an unidentifiable upper portion. There is also the fact that shorter boots are just commonly depicted as either bulkier, with a upper rim that's obviously not used with a sock, or readily depicted with a sock or stocking coming out of it. It's these differences that make it a different case than thighhighs.
It might be easier and better to simply reverse the knee_socks -> kneehighs alias, so this naming argument can't be reused.
NWF_Renim said:
Provence, I think you rely too much on naming similarity when you make these proposals instead of how the tags are defined and the visual populations that make them up.
I contacted Hillside Moose before making this thread to not run in exact this situation and they said I can make this request . So no, this doesn't count this time since they said I have to mention the wiki entry and what others are thinking about.
But doesn't matter: You took one example from the thigh boots sample with Miku. What with the other one? I don't see where this can possibly be a thighhigh.
Provence said:
But doesn't matter: You took one example from the thigh boots sample with Miku. What with the other one? I don't see where this can possibly be a thighhigh.
I really don't like having to repeat myself, but again you're relying too heavily on the tag's name and not at all how the tag is define (or its image population).
The thighhighs tag is defined as various footwear/legwear of a given length, it is not a specific objects (ie thighhigh stockings). So yes your argument that a thigh boot is not a thighhigh (stocking) is right, but you're wrong to say a thigh boot is not thighigh (as a set of footwear/legwear that are thighhigh in length).
NWF_Renim said:
I really don't like having to repeat myself, but again you're relying too heavily on the tag's name and not at all how the tag is define (or its image population).
The thighhighs tag is defined as various footwear/legwear of a given length, it is not a specific objects (ie thighhigh stockings). So yes your argument that a thigh boot is not a thighhigh (stocking) is right, but you're wrong to say a thigh boot is not thighigh (as a set of footwear/legwear that are thighhigh in length).
Oh, I totally understand you but that doesn't mean I agree with you (and yes, I've read the wiki entry so please stop to make people look dump by saying "relying too much on the name". I thought the purpose of a forum is to discuss such things and how people think about things and not: "The wiki entry says it's this way, so it's this way", especially, if an implication is wacky like this one.)
For "tagging" purposes isn't a strong reason as you think it is. I don't see to repeat myself, but there are ways to distinct thigh boots, be it the tightness or the full given image. If one can't see the full body, it's a thighhigh, like in most of Miku's pictures. That's how I'd use this tag, but given your "word of god" that she normally wears thighboots, it's also fine.
There is distinctions yes, but you need to understand that there is also a lot of similarities between thighhigh stockings and a good chunk of the thighhigh boot tag, visually identical to the point that as I stated you can simply cover up the foot and not be able to distinguish one from the other. This similarity is certainly to the point that you can easily swap thigh-high length boots for thigh-high length stockings in tags like zettai ryouiki that refers to the gap created by thigh-high stockings and a skirt.
This problem of overlap doesn't really occur at other lengths, as far as I'm aware, making this area more of a unique case. Given this overlap, I personally feel it'd be far better with the umbrella tag than splitting it apart. If differentiation is that important, I'd rather encourage creating a subtag for the stockings that implicates the thighhighs tag (thighhigh_stockings or something, that way it comes up typing in thighhigh in autocomplete).
I did suggest Provence make an implication request because I figured the parallels between it and thighhighs would be a strong case, despite the "hosiery" stipulation in the wiki. However, NWF Renim made a good argument keeping knee_boots and kneehighs separate in this thread.
