New Search Wiki (WIP)

In all the years I've been using this site, I've always thought the help:cheatsheet was awful... Sorry. I feel where the help:cheatsheet failed me is in that it isn't short and concise. It's just a long list.

I figured I'd try to do something about it... so I've spent the last couple of hours writing up some stuff.

I'm far from done but I'll take a break now and continue it later in the near eternity.

Here's a run-down of what I have so far:

help:search
A page meant to show how search works on the site. It should show the most used search functionality while being kept as short as possible; linking to related Wiki pages for more detailed info. For instance, the Sorting portion should not list every single sort option as most are probably less frequently used. Instead it should link to a separate Wiki with all sort options listed, regardless of frequency of use.

help:imagesize
A collection of all tags and metatags related to resolution and filesize.

help:number_syntax
A page explaining how the number syntax (aka the id syntax) works.

help:metatags
A cheatsheet like page for metatags but with more descriptions and examples. Not yet started.

help:sortings
A cheatsheet like page for sortings but with more descriptions and examples. Not yet started.

help:autotags
A list of all tags that may be automatically added to posts.

Feel free to come with comments, suggestions and critique. Or hey, if you feel like it, delete everything. I won't be offended.

I've always thought that help:cheatsheet was great. Yes, it's long, but that's because there are so many types of searches. The reason why it goes so in-depth about metatags is because without it, even fewer users would know that they exist. That said, there's always room for improvement.

+1 for this idea.

In the help:search wiki, when you get to the advanced features, I'd include a brief description and then a link to the more in depth wiki.

Also, maybe instead of having help:resolution and help:filesize which points to help:resolution, call it help:imagesize and just have one wiki page. That term is ambiguous enough to cover both the filesize and resolution groupings. Just include a brief description about what that term includes (resolution and filesize), and then a link to that wiki.

BrokenEagle98 said:

Also, maybe instead of having help:resolution and help:filesize which points to help:resolution, call it help:imagesize and just have one wiki page. That term is ambiguous enough to cover both the filesize and resolution groupings. Just include a brief description about what that term includes (resolution and filesize), and then a link to that wiki.

I'm up for that. :) If a mod could make that change? Just update the titles, then I'll update everything else.

To clarify:

• Delete help:filesize
• Change title of help:resolution to help:imagesize

fossilnix said:

I've always thought that help:cheatsheet was great. Yes, it's long, but that's because there are so many types of searches. The reason why it goes so in-depth about metatags is because without it, even fewer users would know that they exist. That said, there's always room for improvement.

But that's the thing, it is not in-depth. I'm all for that we keep help:cheatsheet, but it has never been descriptive enough.

Did you know before that 100.. is equal to >=100 and not >100? Or that 100..200 is inclusive? Or that a single ~tag would be equal to a normal tag? Or that ratios has slack?

help:cheatsheet is great for overall reference but if I want to read more about a metatag I have nowhere to go. (On a second note, help:cheatsheet is actually lacking all auto-tags)

Also, I'd say help:search is a much better introductory for new users.

You can use basic syntax with ratios; though, the results make no sense. You may be able to make some sense of the results if you look through the source code. Be my guest.

That being said, basic syntax with ratios are also pretty pointless. The only case where ratios with basic syntax might make sense is in this case: ratio:16:9..10, but the results don't show what you'd expect.

The site automatically divides the width by the height, so when you search for ratio:16:9 it actually searches for ratio:1.77 (it rounds to two digits after the decimal point).

If you want to search for ratios between 16:9 and 16:10, use ratio:16:10..16:9 (which converts to ratio:1.6..1.77).

What happens when you search ratio:16:9..10 is that it searches for ratio:1.77..10, because the second number wasn't a ratio.

I renamed the page. Also added the missing automatic tags to it.

Toks said:

If you want to search for ratios between 16:9 and 16:10, use ratio:16:10..16:9 (which converts to ratio:1.6..1.77).

What happens when you search ratio:16:9..10 is that it searches for ratio:1.77..10, because the second number wasn't a ratio.

That actually makes perfect sense. I should have seen that earlier. Oh, well. ;) I'll update the page.

Toks said:

I renamed the page. Also added the missing automatic tags to it.

Cool, thanks! I didn't know there were more automatic tags. :) Hmm... it messes up the page a bit though as those automated tags are not related to imagesize. Haha. I'll think of something.

I created help:autotags to home all the automatic tags that may be added to posts.

It also leaves a place for any future automatic tags that may be added.

Also, I updated the Ratio syntax part on help:number_syntax.

Specific pool in added order

That's a bit misleading. ordpool: tag simply follows ordering of posts in the pool, which in turn can be changed anytime.

trustworthy_guy said:

I created help:autotags to home all the automatic tags that may be added to posts.

It also leaves a place for any future automatic tags that may be added.

Also, I updated the Ratio syntax part on help:number_syntax.

Instead of doubling up the number of pages where these tags have to be updated, maybe it would be better just to indicate it on the page itself. This could be done by making the tags bold.

For instance, at the top of help pages where automatic tagging applies, you could put:

Tags which can only be added to posts automatically are marked with bold.
Tags which can be added to posts manually or automatically are marked with italic.
Note: Tags that are added automatically cannot be changed.

Wildcard section on help:search is also misleading, but it's a very common misconception. See topic #10395, I never knew of this myself until Toks pointed it out.

Also, ratios section on numbers page might mention simply using ratio:1200:1920 instead of ratio:5:8 if one doesn't want to bother with reduction of fractions.

Type-kun said:

That's a bit misleading. ordpool: tag simply follows ordering of posts in the pool, which in turn can be changed anytime.

Is this true? I simply followed what help:cheatsheet had to say about the tag.

ordpool:boo_boo_kagaboo 
Search for posts in the pool with the name Boo Boo Kagaboo and display them in the order they were added to the pool, instead of the order they were uploaded.

I've never really used pools so I didn't know they have an order system themselves. But if that's the case, I'll update the Wiki. :)

BrokenEagle98 said:

Instead of doubling up the number of pages where these tags have to be updated, maybe it would be better just to indicate it on the page itself. This could be done by making the tags bold.

For instance, at the top of help pages where automatic tagging applies, you could put:

That is correct. We should keep duplicate information to a minimum.

Perhaps I should remove the autotags from help:imagesize and strictly keep them on help:autotags?

If I remove the autotags I feel help:imagesize is getting too small to justify its place there. Perhaps I could just put the few imagesize tags under Advanced Search in help:search and remove help:imagesize?

trustworthy_guy said:

That is correct. We should keep duplicate information to a minimum.

Perhaps I should remove the autotags from help:imagesize and strictly keep them on help:autotags?

If I remove the autotags I feel help:imagesize is getting too small to justify its place there. Perhaps I could just put the few imagesize tags under Advanced Search in help:search and remove help:imagesize?

I was actually thinking more of getting rid of the help:autotags, and moving everything to help:imagesize.

Type-kun said:

Wildcard section on help:search is also misleading, but it's a very common misconception. See topic #10395, I never knew of this myself until Toks pointed it out.

Also, ratios section on numbers page might mention simply using ratio:1200:1920 instead of ratio:5:8 if one doesn't want to bother with reduction of fractions.

Awesome, thanks. :)

Updated and updated.

BrokenEagle98 said:

I was actually thinking more of getting rid of the help:autotags, and moving everything to help:imagesize.

That wouldn't really make sense to be honest. Automatic tags are a thing for themselves and only a few of them are related to imagesize. Also it makes for a logical place to put future automatic tags, whatever functionality they may have.

trustworthy_guy said:

That wouldn't really make sense to be honest. Automatic tags are a thing for themselves and only a few of them are related to imagesize. Also it makes for a logical place to put future automatic tags, whatever functionality they may have.

Ah, I thought that the automatic tags were all related to image size... I would have been more complete in describing my methodology then.

Going back to my original thought, the automatic tags could either be moved to the category they are related to (e.g. imagesize) and then marked as I indicated, or all placed in the autotags page as it currently stands.

Both methodologies have their pros and cons... like you said, it would be easier for the developers to update the automatic tags if they're all in one place, however, it would be better for the user if all of the tags were grouped by category all in one place.

Or, we could do both...? I updated the help:imagesize with what I was thinking, just as an example.

I like your use of the quote box in formatting. :D I'll try to incorporate that in the other Wikis.

Now, I find it difficult to justify keeping help:imagesize as that Wiki only has 5 metatags unique to it. Those could just as easily be put under Advanced Search in help:search together with a link noting that help:autotags has relevant tags to imagesize; this would also prevent duplicating the autotags.

Do you follow me? Or do we disagree on that one? :)

Personally, what I'd like is to keep help:search as detailed as possible, to avoid too many cross-references, but also to keep it compact. For this reason I put help:number_syntax into a separate Wiki as it would be too long to write out in help:search.

Yeah, that could work. I guess I'll just have to see what it looks like when done.

What would really be ideal is if the Wiki was like a real wiki and used wiki formatting, with a wiki ToC. That way, people could navigate right to the sections they're interested in. You could also incorporate embedded images from Danbooru as examples. This is just a wishlist item though.