ToS Discussion Thread

For the tos changes do we basically agree on what's in forum #106567?

For what exactly will go in default blacklists, anyone else have input besides what was mentioned earlier?
Note that adding default blacklists to existing user accounts will require running a script to update every account on the site, so it's best to get it right the first time and not have to go back and update them more than once.

I'd like to see rape, ryona, and bdsm included in the default blacklist, or at least in the list of things that users could face discipline for failing to tag in their own posts. My current blacklist is largely an attempt to compensate for how often those go untagged.

Quoting these for clarity:

Flopsy said:

rape, scat, furry -rating:s, loli, bestiality, gaping, pregnant -rating:s, large_insertion

I'd also consider including shota, yaoi, futanari/newhalf, abuse/bullying/sexual_harassment, imminent_rape/after_rape, corruption/brainwashing/hypnosis, vore, amputee, peeing/pee/golden_shower, gangbang, sex_machine/milking_machine, inflation, nipple_penetration, virgin, menstruation, prostitution, bukkake, public_use/cumdump/immobilization/human_furniture and fat_man/ugly_man. These suggestions are all based on estimated level of user dislike, no condemnation or disrespect is implied.

Some entries may be qualified with -rating:s or rating:e. In fact, I think it might be a good idea to add rating:e by itself as the very first entry. People who are looking for raunchy stuff will probably be stubborn enough to find and remove it.

To make the default blacklist easier to understand, it would be helpful to add a link below the blacklist field in the settings page. Clicking that link would open a help page (in a new tab, if possible) that explained what the blacklist was about and how to edit it. The help page could also contain an auto-generated list of links to the wiki page for each tag on the default blacklist.

Like someone said, there should also be some kind of persistent but dismissable notice (e.g. in the announcement bar at the top of the page, or where that "Upgrade for only $20!" banner appears) for all new or anonymous users, informing them that a default blacklist is active and containing a link to the settings page where they can edit it.

Edit: immediate_rape => imminent_rape. Thanks hemogoblin!

regarding default blacklists, may i request to add spoilers too? i think that would be helpful and prevent "accidental" discovery of plot-related posts.

A few more: incest, castration/tamakeri/squeezing_testicles/severed_penis, pain/torture/nipple_torture, self-mutilation/suicide/death, blasphemy/jesus/nun, huge_breasts/gigantic_breasts, large_penis/huge_penis, huge_ass/pov_ass, spread_pussy/spread_anus, enema, prolapse, fart, vomit/vomiting, whip_marks.

Flopsy said:

immediate_rape

That's imminent_rape.

What's with this huge list?

Skimming over the last few pages, I don't see the point of the default blacklist. (especially for anonymous browsing).
This whole thing sounds like it would be better as a list of "commonly blacklisted tags", a recommendation for those who wish to blacklist before having to stumble upon those tags themselves.

So, for example, when you create a new account, you are redirected to a page that asks you to set up your blacklist, and recommends you some tags.
But there shouldn't be a default blacklist that hides content from users who don't even know the blacklist exists.

S1eth said:

So, for example, when you create a new account, you are redirected to a page that asks you to set up your blacklist, and recommends you some tags.

Not a bad idea. Or perhaps put all the "commonly blacklisted" in the blacklist field and then take the user to the settings page, with a helpful message at the top. Then it would be very easy to add and delete entries to taste.

This is not what I had in mind. The plan is to only blacklist tags associated with previously banned material like guro and scat.

Toks said:

There should probably be a forum sticky for that, people come onto the forum asking for the source of images and usually their question would be answered if they knew about reverse image searching.

I created a wiki page (because a wiki page is easier to update by multiple users than a forum post; if you think a forum sticky pointing to it is useful you can create one): List of Reverse Image Search Machines

(I linked it from other relevant wiki pages as well)

Toks said:

For the tos changes do we basically agree on what's in forum #106567?

Yes, that's fine but I still think the last category should contain a link to help:reverse_image_search so that nobody can say later they didn't know about a way to find higher quality versions.

Not part of the allowed content discussion but please also consider my remarks in forum #106831.

tapnek said:

This is not what I had in mind. The plan is to only blacklist tags associated with previously banned material like guro and scat.

I completely agree with that. This way nothing visibly changes for existing users. Previously this content was banned. After these changes this content is allowed but hidden by default. Everything that was allowed and visible stays this way.

A bloated default blacklist is not a good idea.

Still it might be useful to more prominently point the users to the blacklist feature so that everyone knows that they can decide themselves what they want to see.

Personally I feel that furry should only be allowed if it's Japanese Kemono (no, not kemonomimi, they're two separate things) art or if the characters are from a Japanese work. As a scat dude I've always thought the fact that piss pictures are allowed on a lot of sites but scat isn't to be dumb...granted, most scat pictures on Pixiv suck since they are WAY too extreme, but eh.

Flopsy said:

A few more: incest, castration/tamakeri/squeezing_testicles/severed_penis, pain/torture/nipple_torture, self-mutilation/suicide/death, blasphemy/jesus/nun, huge_breasts/gigantic_breasts, large_penis/huge_penis, huge_ass/pov_ass, spread_pussy/spread_anus, enema, prolapse, fart, vomit/vomiting, whip_marks.

What the....

Dude, there's no reason to default blacklist stuff like incest, are you that thin-skinned? Not sure why we should cater to religious people either, if you're going on danbooru you probably aren't the god-fearing type.

SD-DAken said:

I created a wiki page [...]: List of Reverse Image Search Machines Engines

I just noticed that I have always written search machine (i.e. a word for word translation from German) instead of search engine. I hopefully have corrected all instances of it now.

Chagen46 said:

Personally I feel that furry should only be allowed if it's Japanese Kemono (no, not kemonomimi, they're two separate things) art or if the characters are from a Japanese work.

There has always been the rule that content has to be relevant to danbooru. (In the ToS the non-anime prohibition / In the howto:upload guide the art style section). If this is applied to furry in the same way (i.e. only Japanese artists or art style) I think there should be no reason for concern.

If the concern is over cheesy disney style drawing applied to furry, that's definitely not happening, even the most egregious regular uploaders wouldn't do that.

And on the points people made about suggested versus auto-blacklist tags, I do agree with putting restricted tags on automatic if its feasible to do so, and letting regular users know how to use blacklists as they see fit.

Chagen46 said:

What the....

Dude, there's no reason to default blacklist stuff like incest, are you that thin-skinned?

I assure you that I'm not "that thin-skinned". The purpose of my lists was to brainstorm tags that might bother a large enough fraction of the (current and potential) userbase to justify having them on the default blacklist. I can't say what the optimal default list would be, but since it will be very easy for users to re-enable tags they do want to see, I don't think having a hundred entries or so in the default list is unreasonable.

SD-DAken said:

A bloated default blacklist is not a good idea.

Still it might be useful to more prominently point the users to the blacklist feature so that everyone knows that they can decide themselves what they want to see.

New users don't necessarily know about the tags they should blacklist to avoid retinal scarring. There's also the "WTH is this?! I'm outta here!" first impression factor that the user known only as "☆♪" mentioned.

A question for Toks et al.: You'd be adding the default blacklist entries to existing accounts only if they didn't already have a blacklist, right? I don't think people who are happy with their current list would appreciate that kind of intervention. I wouldn't.

Edit:

Toks said:

For the tos changes do we basically agree on what's in forum #106567?

I'm not sure whether my opinion matters, but yes, that would be an improvement. Although I'll support nude filters only if they are:

• Very good.
• Tagged with both the original artist and the nude filterer.
• Taken down if the original artist requests it.

Flopsy said:

A question for Toks et al.: You'd be adding the default blacklist entries to existing accounts only if they didn't already have a blacklist, right? I don't think people who are happy with their current list would appreciate that kind of intervention. I wouldn't.

Here's what I'm thinking. Anonymous viewers will have the blacklist with those tags on at all times. They will have to create an account if they want to see them, which is better than the loli, shota, and toddlercon tags where you have to pay or get promoted by the staff to see. As for older accounts, they won't get the tags on their blacklist but new accounts created from when the feature will be implemented will.

Hmm, I seem to have completely ignored this thread. Just to toss my 2 cents in, I agree by and large with these changes including the proposed new ToS.

I might suggest moving nude filter to the last section, because we *really* don't need to encourage people to post them. They end up here anyway because people find them before the originals sometimes, and yes, they should be held to a very high standard of quality if accepted at all. Either that or work a "not recommended" into the second section as well. Maybe including both the second and third sections?

I'll also very strongly encourage these remain strong guidelines rather than hard and fast rules, and am opposed to any nuking after the fact. Images should be gauged on their individual merits and rules need to be allowed to be bent or broken in exceptional cases by people who know what they are doing. People who do so should remain aware that if bent too far or too often it will result in flags, deletions, and potential moderator actions against them. So such diversions from the letter of the rules should only be done with care and experience, if ever. A hard black and white "any poop or blood or fur = automatic deletion" though is not something we should endorse, especially if we are going through with blacklists.

I'm also thinking we should maybe make sure each auto-blacklisted tag have at least one at least semi-active person with approval permissions who removes that tag from their blacklist. I can potentially foresee undetected abuse if we don't.

The goal in modifying the Terms of Service is to change what are treated as guidelines and word them in a way so that while they sound like guidelines, they're still rules.

Is yaoi still discouraged? It's not mentioned anywhere obvious.

GabrielWB said:

the guro tag itself is inherently vaguely used. Guro is supposed to be a tag for the grotesque and weird that may or may not involve violence and death. Think of works of itou_junji for example. But it now has grown to a catchall-tag that encompasses anything from plain murder, torture or any post that just happens to contain blood. [...] I still think that the artistic part and the bloody-dismemberment-violence-amputee-autopsy part of guro really need to be split up into seperate tags to make this easier to manage. The fact that the gore tag is aliased to the guro tag isn't helping.

The body_horror tag could be used for some of the weirder stuff.

SD-DAken said:

Downvoting / Upvoting [for stupid vendetta reasons] is a banable offense.

That seems a bit harsh. Score is a popularity contest, of course it's going to be gamed.

parasol said:
Is yaoi still discouraged? It's not mentioned anywhere obvious.

The body_horror tag could be used for some of the weirder stuff.

There's nothing wrong with yaoi, and it's never been explicitly forbidden. As long as it's well drawn it shouldn't be an issue. And I agree with the body_horror tag idea. That could go into the blacklist suggestions as a choice.

Shinjidude said:

I'm also thinking we should maybe make sure each auto-blacklisted tag have at least one at least semi-active person with approval permissions who removes that tag from their blacklist. I can potentially foresee undetected abuse if we don't.

I've got no blacklisted tags at all. It doesn't really make sense to hide stuff from yourself if you're an approver; I'm cool with members having it, but honestly, it seems absurd as a janitor to block content from yourself, especially if you have to police it.