Posted under General
eidolon said:
If we change the ToS to say that they're "guidelines" rather than rules then we would just be opening the door for a lot of bad art. People would just assume that because it says they're guidelines, that it's means it's okay for everything.
The parts about high quality art anime art and such should remain listed as rules. Only the ones arbitrarily forbidding content should be removed.
So what would be good for a proposed revised ToS?
Prohibited Content
In addition, you may not upload any of the following:
- Non-anime: Photographs of American porn actresses, for example, are prohibited. Photographs of cosplayers, figures, or prominent figures in the industry are acceptable.
- Watermarked: Any image where a person who is not the original copyright owner has placed a watermark on the image.
- Poorly compressed: Any image where compression artifacts are easily visible.
- Manga: Uploading entire manga or doujinshi chapters is discouraged. Individual pages can be uploaded if they meet the quality criterion.
- Nude Filter: Images that have been edited by someone other than the original creator to remove clothing or censorship. These typically feature crude drawings of breasts or genitalia laid on top of the original image.
- Fake translations: Images that have false translations are not allowed in any case.
- Hard translations: Images that have been edited to replace the original language are discouraged.
The following may be uploaded but will be put to a higher level of artistic and qualitative scrutiny than normal.
- Furry: Any image or movie where a person's skin is made of fur or scales.
- Grotesque: Any depiction of extreme mutilation, extreme bodily distension, feces, or bodies that are far outside the realm of normal human proportion (for example, breasts that are larger than three heads in size or penises that are larger than two heads in size).
Or maybe the second section should be removed?
Well going with that layout there I'd say need to migrate some parts from the flat out prohibited section to the under heavier scrutiny section. It will be true that content under there will be under heavier scrutiny and so it would be worthwhile to be openly stated that it will.
This is just a quick edit of your layout and a few changes or additions in wording.
Prohibited and Restricted Content
You may not upload any of the following:
- Non-anime: Photographs of American porn actresses, for example, are prohibited. Photographs of cosplayers, figures, or prominent figures in the industry are acceptable.
- Manga: Uploading entire serialized manga chapters. Individual artistic pages can be uploaded if they meet the quality criterion.
- Fake translations: Images that have false translations are not allowed in any case.
The following may be uploaded but will be put to a higher level of artistic and qualitative scrutiny than normal:
- Watermarked: Any image where a person who is not the original copyright owner has placed a watermark on the image.
- Furry: Any explicit image where a person's skin is made of fur or scales.
- Poorly compressed: Any image where compression artifacts are easily visible.
- Grotesque: Any depiction of extreme mutilation, extreme bodily distension, feces, or bodies that are far outside the realm of normal human proportion (for example, breasts that are larger than three heads in size or penises that are larger than two heads in size).
- Nude Filter: Images that have been edited by someone other than the original creator to remove clothing or censorship. These typically feature crude drawings of breasts or genitalia laid on top of the original image.
- Hard translations: Images that have been edited to replace the original language are discouraged.
I also liked the idea of there being an "extreme_gore" tag, which could be defaulted on a user's blacklist.
I'd prefer a hardline ban on scat play
people pooping on each other, pooping with ahegao, basically sexually charged poop
because this is more the content that's actually banned, just saying "scat" which people past and present have interpreted as "poop in the image period means delete this" and that's not the intention.
3rd party watermarks, nude filters, and hard translations should absolutely stay hard verboten. I only agree with poorly compressed being moved down because "easily visible" is pretty vague.
EDIT: Hard translations where it is impossible to find the original are OK I suppose. I don't think I'd ever knowingly approve them, but I wouldn't get in a twist if someone else did. Though they should be given the boot, at no penalty to the uploader, if we do get the original.
Updated
I was about to post something similar as your post just now NWF Renim. Your list makes sense, but:
Nude Filters should remain Prohibited completely, as should poor compression. I actually think a section on tampered images should be noted, and that third party watermarks, nude filters and poor photoshops belong in it. There should also be a "damaged images" section in the top for poor compressions/artifacting, corruption, and gifs and motion content with timing and other errors. Hard translations I'm very mixed about, but I think we can agree there's some times when thats ok to let through.
We should also separate the "non-anime" entry into a photos and irrelevant content pair of entries. Stating clearly what is on-topic art (japan, anime/manga, comic/videogame and scifi/fantasy) and judging further off-topic images more harshly. Stuff that fits into the current strand of content is important to note as well. Somethings might seem off-topic, but are fitting in the archives by their artistic quality. Having an allowance for great photo art, if relevant, well composed, not damaged or tampered with should be fine.
Updated
NWF_Renim said:
This is just a quick edit of your layout and a few changes or additions in wording.
(Proposed new ToS)
I wholeheartedly support this.
I also liked the idea of there being an "extreme_gore" tag, which could be defaulted on a user's blacklist.
I'm not against this, but how would the (not guro)-guro-extreme_gore trichotomy be defined? The EXTREME GRAPHIC violence criterion for guro is already fuzzy.
If default blacklists are introduced, then it might be useful to also include rape, scat, furry -rating:s, loli, bestiality, gaping, pregnant -rating:s, large_insertion and any other potentially appetite-ruining content we can think of. Fragile minds and weak stomaches will be protected, libertines will get some search tips and everybody will be a winner!
buehbueh said:
There should also be a "damaged images" section in the top for poor compressions/artifacting, corruption, and gifs and motion content with timing and other errors.
Like ShadowbladeEdge said, "poor" compression is too subjective to work as a hard rule. If it was my personal definition of "poor", then every single JPEG from Twitter would be banned, which is quite contrary to current de-facto policy. Moreover, the recent arrival of chillingly effective 21st century filter technology has made me think differently about grainy JPEGs.
Updated
Going off of the previous suggestion.
Edit: NWF Renim's post considered. Need more opinions on nude filters, however.
Edit2: Taking nude filters and scat into consideration.
Prohibited and Restricted Content
You may not upload any of the following:
- Non-anime: Photographs of American porn actresses and Japanese AV idols, for example, are prohibited. Photographs of cosplayers, figures, or prominent figures in the industry are acceptable.
- Manga: Uploading entire serialized manga chapters. Individual artistic pages can be uploaded if they meet the quality criterion.
- Fake translations: Images that have false translations are not allowed in any case.
The following may be uploaded but will be put to a higher level of artistic and qualitative scrutiny than normal:
- Furry: Any explicit image where a person's skin is made of fur or scales.
- Grotesque: Any depiction of extreme mutilation, extreme bodily distension, feces, or bodies that are far outside the realm of normal human proportion (for example, breasts that are larger than three heads in size or penises that are larger than two heads in size).
- Nude Filter: Images that have been edited by someone other than the original creator to remove clothing or censorship. These typically feature crude drawings of breasts or genitalia laid on top of the original image.
The following may be uploaded but are generally not recommended unless a better copy cannot be found:
- Watermarked: Any image where a person who is not the original copyright owner has placed a watermark on the image.
- Hard translations: Images that have been edited to replace the original language.
- Poorly compressed: Any image where compression artifacts are very easily visible.
Updated
Poor compression is becoming more and more common, particularly with the switch over to using twitter as a source for images. I have no issues prohibiting it, but it seems from my perspective it is something that is going to be readily approved unless the image is really really messed up by it. Ideally we can hopefully replace them with better versions, but that seems to becoming less likely imho. A question regarding it, with higher resolution monitors and increased pixel densities, does that start hiding the impact of compression artifacts in an image?
On third-party watermarks, I think it honestly depends on the type of watermark that has been added. The bulk from my perspective are no good because they're obnoxious (ex: post #1772999), but there are those that don't really detract from the images and are easily removable (ex: post #142285). Of course if a non-watermarked version appears, as has in my second example, then it should be replaced and removed.
Nude filters is another thing where I think the bulk of images will not pass, but it's an issue of quality, and I think there will be situations where it will be of a visual quality that it could be potentially approved. I guess a question to go with this is if someone goes to lengths and essentially traces and redraws the whole character completely and removes their clothing, is that still classified as a nude filter? (Example: post #775611). Also what is the stance on decensoring as a whole, as that seems to be more common and more likely to get approved still, and the current definition of nude filter also encapsulates decensoring.
Flopsy said:
If default blacklists are introduced, then it might be useful to also include rape, scat, furry -rating:s, loli, bestiality, gaping, pregnant -rating:s, large_insertion and any other potentially appetite-ruining content we can think of. Fragile minds and weak stomaches will be protected, libertines will get some search tips and everybody will be a winner!
spoilers too.
And there should be a news announcement that default blacklists have changed so people know to go modify them if they want.
Log said:
I'd prefer a hardline ban on scat play
people pooping on each other, pooping with ahegao, basically sexually charged poop
because this is more the content that's actually banned, just saying "scat" which people past and present have interpreted as "poop in the image period means delete this" and that's not the intention.
What is the point in that when we already allow lots of other weird fetishes? bestiality, golden_shower, tentacles, etc.
Am I to presume those wanting nude_filter banned want to nuke all the surviving posts too? I wouldn't support that. And I don't support claiming certain content is banned while we have posts of said content not deleted. Nude filter was nuked for quality reasons, as stated in the wiki. I see it as being similar to the other content prohibited by the TOS: sure 99.9% of it doesn't belong here, but let's not give reason for people to flag those that pass.
Looking back, post #332714 had the nude_filter tag removed. I wonder if more posts went into hiding.
Toks said:
What is the point in that when we already allow lots of other weird fetishes? bestiality, golden_shower, tentacles, etc.
Scat is the one fetish that a lot of people can't handle. I don't think a lot of people would go for a high-quality anime-style drawing of swap.avi.
I think the rules page should strongly emphasize that commonly blacklisted tags / those that are likely to be disturbing to people (e.g. guro, scat, rape) must be properly tagged when uploading. Currently that stuff is hidden in one of the long wiki pages on tagging, which, realistically, a lot of new uploaders aren't going to read, even if they probably should. Some of the things on my blacklist can really ruin my day if I see them, and while I understand the policy of erring on the side of acceptance, I think it's very important that it be possible to block that kind of stuff if you want to (which a lot of people do).
I also think that default blacklisting of the more extreme stuff is a good idea, and I think it should apply to anonymous browsing as well. Currently it's kind of awkward to introduce people to the site: "Yeah, it's a really cool place! Just, uh, don't go to the front page until you've made an account, 'cause there might be some really fucked up shit there..."
I think it could be in degrees. Truly relevant content should be:
Japan, anime, manga or japanese games, culture and music, and japanese artists as the core topics.
Not completely on topic but fine on other grounds:
art inspired by japanese artists, anime influenced in style, or high quality fantasy, science fiction or technically good illustration.
Not on topic at all and completely out of place:
IRL Porn photos, real life landscape photos and portrait photos of no relevance to any topic on this site, western style political cartoons with no basis in classical anatomy or japanese styled form, or any cartoon that appears in an american newspaper, comics with neither any basis in japan while ALSO being poorly drawn.
A distinction could be made for superhero comics as many japanese artists make illustrations of that, and many western artist uploads with that sort of content are well done. This should be made clear for games too, and science fiction and fantasy, if well drawn, does fit into the archives neatly. Things like american cartoons though, with no "east meets west" or anime styling or relation to japan in any way, doesn't fit. This would keep out Cartoon Network/Nickelodeon cartoon art from being slipped in, since much of that doesn't have value from a higher level art standpoint. It should also be noted that extremely cartoonish art should be judged with more scrutiny, including chibi, or pictures of japanese copyrights done in western cartoon styles and forms of design, regardless of cultural source.
